ENDING of NO TIME TO DIE - Opinions and theories - SPOILER

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  • Scotia_daylightScotia_daylight Posts: 15MI6 Agent

    Thanks again Jonnytunnel and I am flattered by your suggestion about sending a treatment to Barbara Broccoli for the next Bond film. I would of course love to but unfortunately as Empire magazine pointed out years ago in a feature about how to get into the film industry and elsewhere on this forum, unsolicited scripts and treatments for any future film are not even looked at by major film companies and especially not for a billion dollar franchise like James Bond.

    I would need an agent who would take me on and even then, Broccoli would ask for my track record in the film industry which would be absolutely zero experience!

    Of course, if it turns out that there are loads of other James Bond fans here that like my ideas so far and an agent picks up my case and in the very unlikely event Broccoli reads my treatment and officially brings me on board for the next Bond film then yes, I would work on a story that I think is what would both give Bond a ripping good yarn and what I think fans like you and I would really like to see on screen.

    Whether my ideas would survive beyond the script stage is another matter because there have been many feuds between novelists and film companies when the film adaptation is made and Empire magazine forewarned this in their feature many years ago that the finished film is often not always what the original script set out e.g. George RR Martin on the DVD commentary for one episode of "Game of Thrones" was told by the producer that his script for one episode based on his own novel would spend the entire budget of the entire season in his one episode per season that he writes so even George RR Martin had to pare down his scripts for his own creation.

    But you know, if I was made director (with no present experience and no industry track record!) and scriptwriter, maybe I could deliver my intended story. A man can but dream...

  • Scotia_daylightScotia_daylight Posts: 15MI6 Agent
    edited October 2021

    Post script: in the same Empire magazine feature I mentioned said, although somewhat jokingly, if an unsolicited script by some unknown writer is rejected by every film company under the sun but by some fluke a famous well regarded director like James Cameron actually reads this rejected script and says that this script is a great one and should be made into a film then automatically every film company under the sun suddenly think that it is a great script and make it into a film.

    So if by some fluke an agent takes me on and by some fluke a top director reads my story and says that it is a great one then just maybe my ideas might make it onto the screen as 007's next adventure!

  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,988Quartermasters
    edited October 2021

    I think that Craig wanted there to be as little ambiguity in Bond's death as possible - without showing a staring and disfigured corpse - and that was achieved. The self-contained, closed-circuit five-film saga of the Daniel Craig Era is a thing unto itself, to forever be loved by some and not-so-loved by others, flaws and all. This element alone, paradoxically, makes them very much like the rest of the Bonds from which they stand apart.

    I've said it elsewhere, but I believe that the so-called upcoming 'reboot' will simply be the 'status quo' Bond last seen when the credits rolled on DAD: a new actor, most likely a complete new supporting MI6 cast (who hopefully won't have much to do beyond the first act!), the standard gunbarrel intro, etc., et al. Hopefully they'll take some time revealing his face, as in the old days, and have just enough of what Richard Maibaum called 'deadpan spoofing' to please those who found Craig's interpretation too dour (I'm not one of those).

    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
  • jonnytunneljonnytunnel Posts: 15MI6 Agent

    Scotia, yes I realise that sending a treatment wouldn’t be an easy task, loads of layers to get through, but it’s not impossible. I’ve written a few scripts over the years, had some interest with production, but it was all about the finance in the end, or lack of…

    You could do a rewrite for fun, or write a Bond novel, defo got plenty of ideas that would be great to see in a book.

  • jonnytunneljonnytunnel Posts: 15MI6 Agent

    Loeffelholz, You have a good point. If you take Craig’s Bond films as a separate entity from the others, then his story arch works well. Daniel Craig wants to move on, and as you say, he’s basically killed his Bond.

    What I don’t like is that Bond has died at the behest of the actor. Bond should not die, he is invincible, that’s why we like him. We can rely on him to save the day, and then return again to save many more days.

    This film was a bit of mish mash of ideas.

  • Scotia_daylightScotia_daylight Posts: 15MI6 Agent
    edited October 2021

    Hi again Jonnytunnel,

    Many thanks for your encouragement! I could potentially write a novel though the sticking point would be unauthorised use of James Bond and all other registered trademarked characters. Barbara Broccoli would sue the pants off me before a page is published!

    However, one way around it could be that I write my own stand alone action spy novel and if it is well received enough, it is picked up by Broccoli as the basis of a future Bond film. While this hasn't specifically happened for Bond, it did happen for the novel "On Stranger Tides" by Tim Powers which was used as the basis of one of the Pirates of the Caribbean movies even though the original novel was written entirely separate from the Pirates franchise.

    While I have seen just about every Bond film, I haven't read any of the Fleming novels so I reckon I should read one or two to see how he writes - to get an idea of the level of detail and pacing and potentially not deviate too much from Fleming. I'm sure you heard about Sebastian Faulk's "Devil May Care" James Bond novel and how he wrote in Fleming's style. I wouldn't want to do exactly the same but I would definitely respect Fleming's work and be aware of his style.

    Talking more about Empire magazine, the recent October issue of this year has a feature on screenwriter Krysty Wilson-Cairns who is apparently one of the currently most sought after screenwriters in the world. Krysty has a similar background to myself: growing up in the Glasgow area which I agree with Krysty in her interview that it is not the most interesting part of the world but cinema is total escapism form this area and much more interesting.

    Krysty said in her interview that she spent a lot of time in the now sadly defunct Odeon cinema in Glasgow's Renfield Street. This cinema was the Grand Old Lady of the cinemas in Glasgow, it was where most people in Glasgow and the surrounding area went for their films for nearly a century and it was where the Beatles and the Rolling Stones first played in Glasgow and it is so sad that it is no longer open.

    Krysty however also spent a lot of her youth watching VHS videos of the latest films as did I, so with this similar background, I might have a shot at similar success!

    Krysty said that she would like to write a Bond film so she most likely will get there before I do with her stellar reputation in the film industry but I could work on my unofficial Bond novel in my spare time. Apparently Fleming and Faulks wrote their novels in 6 weeks but having a full time job myself and the need to read a couple of Fleming novels to get an idea of how a Bond novel should be set and paced, it will definitely take me much longer than 6 weeks to write. But yes, if I do write this novel, I will include an MI6/hero HQ invasion by the enemy and a last ditch defence by two female agents and the hero's boss!

  • jonnytunneljonnytunnel Posts: 15MI6 Agent

    Yes write that novel, of course it doesn’t need to be Bond. It should be original, with a sprinkling of Bond, in your own style. Take your time, keep a notebook by your bed, make notes, you can do it.

    Re: The Flemming books, I’ve read 5/6, they are short and easy to read, but definitely of their time. Bond is much tougher, I enjoyed them, go ebay and get a couple. Think I started with YOLT, and LALD.

    That Krysty sounds interesting, lets hope she writes Bond one day.

  • doubleOElvisdoubleOElvis Posts: 17MI6 Agent

    This thread is hilarious.

  • Scotia_daylightScotia_daylight Posts: 15MI6 Agent

    Just nostalgically went on YouTube and Wikipedia to re-watch the intro sequence of the Playstation 2 James Bond game from 2003, "Everything or nothing".

    If people here haven't played it or forgotten the finer details (more the latter for me), it is regarded by some as the unmade 5th Brosnan Bond film.

    The game has the voice talents and limited graphical representation (as far as Playstation 2 technology allowed at the time) of Pierce Brosnan as Bond, Dame Judi Dench as M, John Cleese as Q, German supermodel Heidi Klum and US actress Shannon Elizabeth as the Bond girls - repeat German supermodel Heidi Klum as a Bond girl - and get this: Willem Dafoe as the villain. Willem Dafoe.

    Guess what Dafoe's dastardly world domination plot involved? NANOBOTS!

    I've long forgotten the finer details like the nanobots since I haven't played this game since 2003 but it looks like "No time to die" is a bit of cop out in terms of having the likes of Willem Dafoe as the main villain (sorry, Rami Malek but Willem is Hollywood royalty, just saying) and the nanobot threat, now that I read the Wikipedia plot summary, is much more large scale than in "No time to die" (shame on the writers - using a 17 year old script idea and diluting it down).

    Once again, I feel like asking for my cinema ticket money back...

  • jonnytunneljonnytunnel Posts: 15MI6 Agent

    Wow that is crazy.

  • Scotia_daylightScotia_daylight Posts: 15MI6 Agent
    edited October 2021

    Yes, isn't it just?

    If you are interested and not done this yet, type in "007 Everything or nothing intro" into the YouTube search box and you should be able to find an upload of the Playstation 2 game intro which is as 100% cinematic as any Bond film intro: unique custom written song, cryptic imagery, shapely women in perfect shape moving seductively in silhouette and for me, the Hammer and Sickle and Red Star of the former USSR invoking both fear and awe of a massive adversary for Bond. Plus Shannon Elizabeth is featured in photo quality clips and looks absolutely stunning both in head and shoulders viewpoint with a pistol and at the end of the intro in beautiful figure hugging silver dress. Everything a Bond intro should be.

    This is an official game, funded by MGM, signed off and approved by the Broccolis and arguably canon with the Brosnan era. Put it this way, at least the Brosnan Bond can face a far more dangerous enemy with far more resources (Dafoe's renegade and disgrunted former KBG agent) with a far more dangerous nanobot threat and live to fight another day.

    Did you hear about back in 2005 the late Sean Connery recorded new voice over work for the Playstation 2 game version of "From Russia with love"? I've not played this game but with his new voice over work, it is obvious that the game expands on the original story. Other Playstation 2 hits of other games have been "remastered" for the newer consoles meaning upgrading the graphics to modern crispness and more realistic detail.

    If the powers that be, i.e. MGM and Barbara Broccoli, in theory there could be Playstation 5 and XBox remaster of "Everything or nothing". That would be awesome and with extra cut scenes filmed with motion capture and digital work in de-aging the stars, we could see not only Brosnan on screen again in near photo quality, but also Heidi Klum, Shannon Elizabeth and of course Willem Dafoe really chewing the scenery as the Bond villain.

    Or even potentially, there could be a "No time to die" game where there are multiple endings, after all there were three endings apparently filmed for "No time to die", and players can choose which action to take and which ending to achieve. If there is one where the Craig Bond survives, I would be sure to play the game to make sure that this happens!

  • Scotia_daylightScotia_daylight Posts: 15MI6 Agent

    Here are some comments from other Bond fans on the YouTube comments section on the separate upload of the entire intro song "Everything or nothing" (search for "Everything or nothing song" on YouTube):

    "Everything in this game is awesome. Everything you ever wanted in a 007 game is in this game. Everything about this song is incredible. Nothing in this game is bad. Nothing, not even Goldeneye, can compare to this game. Nothing in this game was left not done. This game is the epitome of the phrase "Everything or Nothing"! It gave us everything we love about 007 and nothing could be better. It did EVERYTHING right, and NOTHING can compare to it!"

    Another fan:

    "the plot in this game is phenominal. they should make a bond movie based on this plot, but it would only work if it was still pierce brosnan so its too late :("

    Another fan:

    "This is one heck of a Theme song, great game aswell I played it alot and I even got all the Bond moments =P"

    After all that has been said about "No time to die" on this thread: the downer ending, the underuse of the Moneypenny and Paloma characters, the diluted nanobot threat and so on, I say and repeating the chorus line of the theme song of this game, in terms of the film makers delivering a Bond film:

    "Give me everything or nothing at all!"🤣

  • jonnytunneljonnytunnel Posts: 15MI6 Agent

    Gonna check it out now!

  • Glidrose007Glidrose007 Posts: 70MI6 Agent

    check it out with your alias - Scotia Daylight. ;)

    And no need to start promoting yourself on a Bond forum. I doubt Babs is reading this thread and picking up the phone to call you as we speak....😂

  • Scotia_daylightScotia_daylight Posts: 15MI6 Agent

    Jonnytunnel and I are two separate persons. I appreciate that in the past it has been reported that established authors make fake aliases to promote their own work on the Amazon book reviews section and also to trash rivals so I understand where you are coming from Glidrose007.

    There is no way to easily prove that Jonnytunnel and I are separate people for the sceptics because this is a text based forum I understand that but at least I want to say that I am not a person with multiple personality disorder!

    As I posted before, I really don't think Barbara Broccoli will be contacting an unknown first time screenwriter to write the next Bond film but I found this forum a good place to give my own personal opinions about the latest film and what I would have liked to have seen on screen instead.

  • Glidrose007Glidrose007 Posts: 70MI6 Agent

    Peace brother.

    You never know your luck. Keep plugging away, you never know unless you try. 😎

  • jonnytunneljonnytunnel Posts: 15MI6 Agent
    edited October 2021

    Glidrose, we are clearly different people, nothing about self promotion just a bit of enthusiasm and encouragement.. Deary me.

    Anyway, the point was, the ending was less than great, and alternative ideas are much appreciated.

    Peace

    Scotia, man you were right about that PS2 game, intro is ace!

  • Bond_James_BondBond_James_Bond +++ Classified +++Posts: 569MI6 Agent

    I thought you’d appreciate this here.


    The name's Bond_James_Bond
  • chrisno1chrisno1 LondonPosts: 3,221MI6 Agent

    Very neat 😄😄

  • Charmed & DangerousCharmed & Dangerous Posts: 7,358MI6 Agent

    The Danny's Boyle version 😆😆😆

    "How was your lamb?" "Skewered. One sympathises."
  • Scotia_daylightScotia_daylight Posts: 15MI6 Agent

    Hi Glidrose,

    I wasn't offended by your initial post but rather smiling with remembering news stories of established authors being caught out with self promotion on Amazon.

    Thanks for your encouragement. I haven't written anything yet mainly because I have a full time job but I'll definitely be mulling over what overall plot I would like to have.

  • Scotia_daylightScotia_daylight Posts: 15MI6 Agent
    edited October 2021

    Great that you enjoyed the PS2 intro to "Everything or nothing" - it was all excellent wasn't it? A highlight in amongst this excellent intro was the sexy silouette of a Russian girl in amongst the old USSR flag while she is pointing a pistol: the quintessential Bond girl - as deadly as she is beautiful and the question would be: whose side will she be on? Bond's or the villain's?

    I watched "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy" on iPlayer the other night to see if a tilt to Le Carre's style would work for my Bond story. I have read a few of Le Carre's novels including "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy" - I read the novel tie in years ago and have forgotten most of it so I watched the film version.

    Like all Le Carre's work, "Tinker" is morally complex and there are three gunshots in the entire film versus, I don't know, 300+ alone in the intro of a typical Bond film but each gunshot in "Tinker" was shocking with the aftermath of it, especially the second gunshot in the interrogation scene of the captured British agent.

    Le Carre's dark and murky world I think wouldn't work for Bond. Le Carre and movie Bond, even with the grittier Craig movies, are polar opposites in style and shoehorning in bombastic action into a Le Carre moral maze wouldn't really work I think.

  • Scotia_daylightScotia_daylight Posts: 15MI6 Agent

    Great to hear that you liked it too, it was excellent wasn't it? In amongst the excellence, one highlight for me was the sexy silouhette of the Russian girl draped with the USSR flag, pointing a pistol. This is the quintessential Bond girl: as deadly as she is beautiful but which side will she be on? Bond's or the villain's? Watch the film/play the game to find out! That is how good Bond intro sequences should be: cryptic.

    I watched "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy" the other night on iPlayer to see if a tilt towards Le Carre style would work on my unofficial Bond story. I have read a few Le Carre novels before including "Tinker" but this was years ago so I have forgotten most of the story so I watched the film as a refresher.

    As you may know, Le Carre's work has morally complex stories and characters and "Tinker" had three gunshots in the entire film versus, I don't know, 300+ in a typical Bond pre-credit sequence. The three gunshots in "Tinker" all had shocking aftermaths to the story, especially the second gunshot in the interrogation of the captured British agent scene.

    I think that tilting too far into this dark and murky Le Carre style won't work because Le Carre and movie Bond, even the grittier Craig Bonds, wouldn't work, much like mixing fluorescent colours (Bond, especially the Moore and Brosnan style) with different shades of lead pencil (Le Carre).

  • jonnytunneljonnytunnel Posts: 15MI6 Agent

    That Bad Photoshop comic is ace!

    Eloquently written Scotia. I love Le Carre, but that formula is a completely different entity to Bond. Plenty of other authors whose work would suit, who did the screenplay for The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo? I love both versions.

  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 10,262MI6 Agent

    I can't find anything on the NTTD forum any more, not least because of the necessarily opaque names given to threads, and because they mostly overlap. Where's that brilliant post someone did on the MAD magazine spoofs, I was enjoying working through those!

    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 10,262MI6 Agent

    Oh, here it is:

    caractacus potts  Orbital communicator, level 10Posts: 2,484MI6 AgentOctober 25  Flag

    Are you asking for a link to the MAD magazine parody SpyFail@Napoleon Plural ?

    The complete story is available here , or if my embeded hyperlink isn't working, here is the URL: https://www.the007dossier.com/2014/12/01/casebook-spyfail/

    The same blog has scans of all the MAD magazine James Bond parodies from over the years. Best parody title is For Her Thighs Only, but SpyFail pretty much sums up the "complete loser" approach of Craig's films much as @Gassy Man sees it.

    Well worth posting in the mainstream forums like James Bond Films under a new thread, @caractacus potts ! What I really liked but can't quite see are those tiny little cartoons along the edge of the pages, the detail was incredible!

    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • caractacus pottscaractacus potts Orbital communicator, level 10Posts: 3,925MI6 Agent

    Hey glad you liked that MAD magazine content @Napoleon Plural !

    Sometimes I post links to weird stuff and I'm never sure anyone else appreciates it, but certainly the MAD parodies are a nice counterbalance to the downer Bond film we all just watched.

    I did post a link to that blog a few years back, in the Your favourite spoof/references of Bond film moments thread , here's the raw URL if my embedded hyperlink isn't working : https://www.ajb007.co.uk/discussion/comment/923070#Comment_923070

    ...and I tried to organise the post so there's a direct link to each of the individual parodies and some info about the artists. You can download them as PDFs.


    The cartoonist who does the little drawings in the corner is Sergio Aragonés, and you're right these scans aren't quite good enough to make them out. Even in the original magazines you pretty much needed a magnifying glass to catch all the jokes in the corners of the pages. The artist who drew most of the earlier parodies (and most of the MAD movie parodies over the years) was Mort Drucker, and he's brilliant too. He also packs a lot of tiny little jokes inside the larger drawings.

    In fact I'm going to bump that thread if no-one minds, because I can see one of my image links is broken.

  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,972MI6 Agent

    Having thought about it some more, I'm surprised so many people see the end of NTTD in a positive light for Bond. He's killed by his own forces after being poisoned by an incurable infection also made by his own forces. If anything, it's a cynical if not comical end where the hero is hoisted by his own petard.

    I'm trying to remember what the urgency was to bomb the island. Bond and Nomi had essentially neutralized Saffin's forces, with Bond eventually killing Saffin. Swann and Mathilde were safely away. Bond calls the missile strike in, right? Why? Was Saffin on the verge of deploying the nanobots at that point or had Bond merely stumbled onto his plan? What would have precluded a demolition team from the warship or others from simply going ashore and destroying the base that way? After all, Nomi and Bond got there by their glider-submarine.

    So, we have yet another iteration of Maxwell Smart. Bond calls in the strike by British forces that will kill him while trying to destroy a weapon created at the behest of his spy boss. It's one bad decision after another. This doesn't seem like a heroic 007 so much as an almost buffoonish one.

  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 21,746MI6 Agent

    Buyers for the nanobot virus were approaching the island.

  • JuanjolmesJuanjolmes Posts: 2MI6 Agent

    A few weeks had passed since I saw the movie and I'm beginning to think that James Bond never died.


    Everything is full of clues about it, clues that began in "Spectre".


    1) Remember the beginning of "Spectre", with the text and the song: "Los Muertos Vivos Estan" (The dead are alive)

    2) The title of the movie is "No time to die"

    3) There's no dead body. We never see Bond dead or dying.

    4) There were ships reaching to the island

    5) "You only live twice" -> Remember, Bond finished apparently dead in the novel. Then he was brainwashed and returned. Could he brainwashed by the evil guys from the ships?

    6) Doyle did kill Sherlock Holmes. In the series "Sherlock" or the Robert Downey's movie, they killed him and just a few seconds later showed that he was alive. Could the producers try to be brave and don't show anything til the next movie? That would be really great!!!!

    7) The end credits -> "James Bond will return". Do we need more?


    More things: Bond has a scar in the books. Will the new actor have it because of the explosions? Could the explosions justify a change of face?


    You only live twice:

    one life for yourself

    and one for your dreams...

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