Hopefully when this post-9/11 decade ends, the pendulum will swing back and people's tastes will change so every movie these days doesn't have to be quite so nihilistic.
It will swing back. The exact point it does is down to the box office- and at the moment, QoS is doing just fine. It's only when the returns start to fall that we'll see a change. After the next film, perhaps?
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,993Quartermasters
edited November 2008
I'll be most curious to see whether or not they do go more 'conventional' with #23---Q, Moneypenny...(May? )---and, if so, whether this serves CraigBond well, or not...It's an interesting question: if a Craig Bond film that largely obeys the Precious Classic FormulaTM disappoints at the box office (regardless of the reason: script, director, et al.), do they dump Craig---a proven box office draw---as they did with Brozzer?
Many here hope so, of course ) But I wonder. Brozzer was booted after a big hit (albeit one of the poorer Bond films); do they suit up Cavill (or whomever!) if Craig doesn't deliver another recordbreaker?
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I'll be most curious to see whether or not they do go more 'conventional' with #23---Q, Moneypenny...(May? )---and, if so, whether this serves CraigBond well, or not...It's an interesting question: if a Craig Bond film that largely obeys the Precious Classic FormulaTM disappoints at the box office (regardless of the reason: script, director, et al.), do they dump Craig---a proven box office draw---as they did with Brozzer?
Many here hope so, of course ) But I wonder.
Speaking as one of the many here who hope so, I too have my doubts. Don't see May happening, though!
Just over on another board, noticed this thread, seems I might need to adjust my take on the fan base being polarized: nearly 300 fans have voted, 75% rate it at least 7/10. Very surprised, also that the truly negative opinions are a very small (but obviously vocal ) minority. I guess different doesn't mean bad for Bond after all, taking in the fan base as a whole.
Yes, that's a significant fan base poll with 260 participants, most of them James Bond Fans and all of them have to be registered at CBN (as an example, I am not registered there).
And even if you take such a thing seriously, it says, that 25% of the Bond fans are not able to give QoS even a 70% rating.
Probably 50% of the fans are below 80% which is not good for a good JB movie.
RT is today at 62% http://uk.rottentomatoes.com/m/quantum_of_solace/
and if you are counting the 25% below a 7/10 rating on the CBN poll to the total numbers, you'll get something with 62% average total counting which is not really good even for James Bond fans.
So far for statisitics. you can prove everything with them.
and who cares, which party I belong to, the movie left me untouched and most of the prayers are also complaining major flaws.
And before you ask: No, I have not done an exit poll about this.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
And even if you take such a thing seriously, it says, that 25% of the Bond fans are not able to give QoS even a 70% rating.
Well that would make sense, if 75% have it rated 7/10 or more. That 3 to 1 ratio of 7/10 or better seems pretty solidly positive to me, fuzzy math dude that I am.
Well that would make sense, if 75% have it rated 7/10 or more. That 3 to 1 ratio of 7/10 or better seems pretty solidly positive to me, fuzzy math dude that I am.
well, I'd say, that you go back to basics maths before drawing conclusions on advanced figures
I don't think the powers to be will be that bothered by fan based polls when the only true figures they are interested is the hard cash earned through the box office and currently the film is doing very well. It is still No 1 in the UK after 3 weeks (according to the BBC).
The movie has so far made $317m (£211m) worldwide, according to figures collected by the Box Office Mojo website.
At the end of the day EON are a business and they do what they do to make money.
Quantum of Solace looks like being a major success so expect more of the same to follow.
They're not averse to changing tack even when something is successful; remember, Moonraker and Die Another Day were both the most successful Bond films ever on release, but Eon still retooled the series for their follow ups.
I do think there is a bunker mentality starting to set in, in which those who liked the film but recognise its flaws and those who disliked the film but saw redeeming features are being dragged more and more to the extreme. Forums such as ours, where we have nothing better to do with our time ( ) are therefore becoming enmeshed into LOVE IT OR HATE IT: THERE IS NO MIDDLE WAY. Is QoS really better than Goldfinger or OHMSS or FRWL? Is it really worse than AVTAK or TMWTGG?
As has been said: you can prove anything with statistics.
I definitely don't love QoS, but I am far away from hating it.
As said, it is a good action movie, but I expect more from a 007 flic.
However, I would not rate it as low as DAF or AVTAK for example.
But I agree on the bunker mentality, too there seems a need for easy answers and labellings.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Blue, that is something done on CBN statistics. a site where EVERY Craig disser was basically put in conditions not to be able to talk without being insulted more or less directly, not to mention politely reprimanded for not liking Craig. So the fact that has a 70% is actually not good at all, considering it comes from a site where 99% of people are HUGE Daniel Craig fans. And the internet fanbase is a TINY minority. And in this case made up of obsessed fans. I can show you a thread on a site NOT on movies where NOT obsessed people go post and the majority of posts are overwhelmingly negative. That's from people from all over the world and without any affiliation to Bond. Not obsessed fans, just movie fans who like Bond and went to see the movie. It isn't pretty.
And it's definitely polarising as we always said. This movie is a 50/50 one (50 like it, 50 hate it with a few judging it a mixed bag), and I do think it's very evident even from here. The majority is neither positive nor negative, it really is mixed. CBN is a site with a HUGE majority of Craig fans so that really isn't what is called a "significant statistic sample". As the internet in general. Tiny minority of people and generally obsessed fans, save exceptions, it's not a good means to judge whether it is positively or negatively.
"Are we on coms?" (if you don't know where this is from... you've missed some really good stuff! )
Further example: I dealt with an office of new people this week, people I had never met and from completely different social surrounding from mine. Spoke to two of the men about Bond because we were chatting movies. And both can't stand Daniel Craig. Literally. One has watched all the movies and loves Sir Sean and Pierce, refused to go see CR and won't go to see QoS either, he'll just watch on DVD. And he is around 30. The other is younger (20) and not a huge Bond fan but enjoyed the class and wit of the movies. He went to see CR and didn't like it, and doesn't intend to go see QoS at all because he doesn't like Craig or the direction. This makes it two out of two people totally unrelated to me or the social circles I am in. Yet the vast majority on the internet especially seems to be estatic about Craig in general. So, even sampling people this way is just not significant, since then the majority is different from what I polled, even in completely different surroundings from those I normally hang out in.
And this is not counting my circle of friends plus my brother and his friends, none of whom like either QoS or Craig. Yet it really is split 50-50 with this movie and not utter disaster as it would seem by people I know. It takes much more scientific and widespread research to understand how and why people like or don't like an actor and a movie. And the box office isn't significant either as far as liking the movie is concerned. People go see the movie but that doesn't mean they like it and come out of the theater satisfied of what they've seen (as proved by many comments her and by my brother's experience.. him and his friends DID go to see it thus made the box office earn money, but they didn't like it at all). It's just a polarising movie, so it'd really take months to get to statistically significant results on how many like it and how many don't.
And by the way.. last week already, Bond was surpassed at the box office In Italy by a super trashy, crappy Italian movie with a comic actor named Massimo Boldi. Now THAT is really depressing. Yet QoS is doing just fine at the box office. Internet or acquaintances or just a single market out of the whole world aren't a good source to draw statistic conclusions from, that's the thing.
"Are we on coms?" (if you don't know where this is from... you've missed some really good stuff! )
Well, as a Casino Royale naysayter, I have to say I looked in vain for posts slagging it off the way I did, those that hated it seemed inarticulate or just banged on about a lack of gadgets, Moneypenny or what have you.
Not so QoS. Reams of negative reviews, though the rating doesn't reflect these too much, still it's 7.4 or so cf CR 8.1 or so.
Well, as a Casino Royale naysayter, I have to say I looked in vain for posts slagging it off the way I did, those that hated it seemed inarticulate or just banged on about a lack of gadgets, Moneypenny or what have you.
Not so QoS. Reams of negative reviews, though the rating doesn't reflect these too much, still it's 7.4 or so cf CR 8.1 or so.
Hey I did my part with Casino Royale ) ) It just gets tiring after a while when there's all the "hype" around something and one is looked upon as being heretic because they dislike it! ) ) I'm guessing that's also the case with those who didn't like CR. They stopped bothering to post. Happens to the best of us. ) And anyway it was a small minority not liking CR.. we just hang out in a cave somewhere far, far away ) ) (I am JOKING before someone takes offense! LOL)
"Are we on coms?" (if you don't know where this is from... you've missed some really good stuff! )
And anyway it was a small minority not liking CR.. we just hang out in a cave somewhere far, far away ) ) (I am JOKING before someone takes offense! LOL)
And anyway it was a small minority not liking CR.. we just hang out in a cave somewhere far, far away ) ) (I am JOKING before someone takes offense! LOL)
Hey! I happen to be very fond of my cave!
So am I.. because it is a stylish cave à la Pierce and Sean ) ) )
Well..the way you women talk about DC some of you give the impression that it's only abnormal people that find him attractive..I'm sure that's not really anybodys intention..but it can come across as such...so..by saying "sexy women"...I'm saying some of the aren't all butch and manly
Oh about this thing on girls liking or not liking Craig, Sir Miles. Actually, I don't think any of us disliking Craig has even even remotely implied that people who like Craig are any different from those who don't in terms of looks, brains or anything else. It is merely taste and I have never seen anyone even remotely imply that those who like Craig are butch and manly. The only thing I ever said was that I find him to be more popular with British women, and that's because 90% of women I heard rave about Craig are British. I feel it really is the other way round, that people tried to tell us naysayers that we had tacky taste for liking Pierce (or were influenced by our "Italian nature" as Lexi said. But I absolutely embrace my Italian nature and am proud of our taste for everything stylish ))
"Are we on coms?" (if you don't know where this is from... you've missed some really good stuff! )
...which suggests that DAD could be the best Bond movie ever. Now I personally do not hate DAD like apparently everyone else does, but I'm just suggesting that the positive response on that board should be taken with a grain of salt.
...which suggests that DAD could be the best Bond movie ever. Now I personally do not hate DAD like apparently everyone else does, but I'm just suggesting that the positive response on that board should be taken with a grain of salt.
) ) ) )
"Are we on coms?" (if you don't know where this is from... you've missed some really good stuff! )
After QoS, I'm beginning to appreciate some of DAD's redeeming features...clean editing, coherent action sequences, and just plain fun-ness. If I had to (in the sense that someone put a gun to my head) re-watch either DAD or QoS, DAD wins. At the bottom of my favorites list, I don't think its worth spending too much time trying to distinguish which one I like more.
After QoS, I'm beginning to appreciate some of DAD's redeeming features...clean editing, coherent action sequences, and just plain fun-ness. If I had to (in the sense that someone put a gun to my head) re-watch either DAD or QoS, DAD wins. At the bottom of my favorites list, I don't think its worth spending too much time trying to distinguish which one I like more.
I agree with you. I really enjoyed the first half of DAD, and I sure can't say the same about QoS ) )
Speaking of our cave, I have a guest... starring as James Bond...
Fresh from the Australia premiere.... sigh, he really does look like James Bond... who was it that said he saw him in the trailers before QoS and noted how much he looks like Bond? I want my Hugh...
"Are we on coms?" (if you don't know where this is from... you've missed some really good stuff! )
But I absolutely embrace my Italian nature and am proud of our taste for everything stylish ))
And you should be, Alessandra. I love the style of Italian things (clothes, cars, shoes, glasses,...) If I can afford them, I'd surround myself with Italian stuff (first on my list would be a Ferrari F430, or their latest car, the California; after that, I would get myself some Brioni suits ... ). Unfortunately, the only thing Italian I can afford at the moment are the Prada glasses I'm wearing
But I absolutely embrace my Italian nature and am proud of our taste for everything stylish ))
And you should be, Alessandra. I love the style of Italian things (clothes, cars, shoes, glasses,...) If I can afford them, I'd surround myself with Italian stuff (first on my list would be a Ferrari F430, or their latest car, the California; after that, I would get myself some Brioni suits ... ). Unfortunately, the only thing Italian I can afford at the moment are the Prada glasses I'm wearing
Thank you!! We thank you from the bottom of our hearts. And I'll make it a point to bring over something Italian if we ever meet then? Let's see what am I wearing Italian?? hmmmm... everything! ) ) EXCEPT the shoes. I have a pair of ballerina flats from Stuart Weitzman today (American... sort of an American Gucci/Prada for shoes). Weird huh? of all things, the shoes )
I'm still very proud of the fact the Bolivian hotel suite in QoS was ALL Italian designed... just because it looked great. (well that at least! )
"Are we on coms?" (if you don't know where this is from... you've missed some really good stuff! )
So taking the CBner pole and adding the 4 or 5 against-voices here to it, that still makes it a 3 to 1 ratio, but feel free to check my math.
As to the general tone of CBn, a casual glance over there looks like the rest of this thread page, lotsa QOS hate being vented very freely - toss up really which got more hate at this point, Craig two years ago or QOS now.
Does seem that here and elsewhere, the minority voices are the negative ones, even if they're the loudest, with quite a bit of middle ground. Polarization has happened with QOS, but it's not the driving force that I assumed it was (those loud voices, ya know, both for and against). Considering the history of Bond on film, not very surprising really that there is dissatisfaction with the new film, seems there always is... perhaps one defining quality of the dissenters would be they've never experienced it with Bond before Craig? Not to marginalize those old-timey fans who also hate Craig or QOS, but the outrage feels... newborn? Weird for me as the last three guys weren't my Bond, and even if a couple of the films in there made me smile, most I wrote off with a shrug, disappointment came to be expected and a near constant state with Bond (but always hope too, sure). Probably why I have a thin skin when it comes to sweeping statements about Bond fans (I was hating back before it was fashionable to do so), and a thicker one re bad Bond films: that's been EON's MO, to make that which pays the bills, as opposed to making a great Bond film. IMHO. Nice to see they've finally found a way to do both with Craig on board (minority voices excepted, as it will always be).
Thinking about it, though, we don't really want Hugh as Bond, because then we wouldn't have Hugh as Wolverine. And if there's one thing guaranteed in Wolverine, it's a lot of Hugh walking around without his shirt on. :x
Oh by the way darenhat I have a new guest for the cave... starring as James Bond. Since we gotta hide in a cave for criticising CR at least we can make it comfortable and stylish the way we like it! ) And I don't care if he's American! He would be just... perfect. And he is a terrific actor (anyone seen Mad Men? One of my favourite TV shows of all times).
If he can pull out '60s darkness, he can pull out a British accent much more easily )
And of course the cave has B&B Italia furniture like the Bolivian QoS suite.. I would also add a Poliform kitchen. And... the Bond girl should be picked by the men LOL. I can suggest Anna Valle and Giovanna Mezzogiorno as Italians, but there are so many around the world that it would be unfair to limit the choice so much, right?
"Are we on coms?" (if you don't know where this is from... you've missed some really good stuff! )
Comments
It will swing back. The exact point it does is down to the box office- and at the moment, QoS is doing just fine. It's only when the returns start to fall that we'll see a change. After the next film, perhaps?
Many here hope so, of course
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Speaking as one of the many here who hope so, I too have my doubts. Don't see May happening, though!
And even if you take such a thing seriously, it says, that 25% of the Bond fans are not able to give QoS even a 70% rating.
Probably 50% of the fans are below 80% which is not good for a good JB movie.
RT is today at 62% http://uk.rottentomatoes.com/m/quantum_of_solace/
and if you are counting the 25% below a 7/10 rating on the CBN poll to the total numbers, you'll get something with 62% average total counting which is not really good even for James Bond fans.
So far for statisitics. you can prove everything with them.
and who cares, which party I belong to, the movie left me untouched and most of the prayers are also complaining major flaws.
And before you ask: No, I have not done an exit poll about this.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
well, I'd say, that you go back to basics maths before drawing conclusions on advanced figures
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
LOL
The movie has so far made $317m (£211m) worldwide, according to figures collected by the Box Office Mojo website.
At the end of the day EON are a business and they do what they do to make money.
Quantum of Solace looks like being a major success so expect more of the same to follow.
I do think there is a bunker mentality starting to set in, in which those who liked the film but recognise its flaws and those who disliked the film but saw redeeming features are being dragged more and more to the extreme. Forums such as ours, where we have nothing better to do with our time (
As has been said: you can prove anything with statistics.
@merseytart
I definitely don't love QoS, but I am far away from hating it.
As said, it is a good action movie, but I expect more from a 007 flic.
However, I would not rate it as low as DAF or AVTAK for example.
But I agree on the bunker mentality, too there seems a need for easy answers and labellings.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
And it's definitely polarising as we always said. This movie is a 50/50 one (50 like it, 50 hate it with a few judging it a mixed bag), and I do think it's very evident even from here. The majority is neither positive nor negative, it really is mixed. CBN is a site with a HUGE majority of Craig fans so that really isn't what is called a "significant statistic sample". As the internet in general. Tiny minority of people and generally obsessed fans, save exceptions, it's not a good means to judge whether it is positively or negatively.
And this is not counting my circle of friends plus my brother and his friends, none of whom like either QoS or Craig. Yet it really is split 50-50 with this movie and not utter disaster as it would seem by people I know. It takes much more scientific and widespread research to understand how and why people like or don't like an actor and a movie. And the box office isn't significant either as far as liking the movie is concerned. People go see the movie but that doesn't mean they like it and come out of the theater satisfied of what they've seen (as proved by many comments her and by my brother's experience.. him and his friends DID go to see it thus made the box office earn money, but they didn't like it at all). It's just a polarising movie, so it'd really take months to get to statistically significant results on how many like it and how many don't.
And by the way.. last week already, Bond was surpassed at the box office In Italy by a super trashy, crappy Italian movie with a comic actor named Massimo Boldi. Now THAT is really depressing. Yet QoS is doing just fine at the box office. Internet or acquaintances or just a single market out of the whole world aren't a good source to draw statistic conclusions from, that's the thing.
Not so QoS. Reams of negative reviews, though the rating doesn't reflect these too much, still it's 7.4 or so cf CR 8.1 or so.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Hey I did my part with Casino Royale
Hey! I happen to be very fond of my cave!
So am I.. because it is a stylish cave à la Pierce and Sean
Oh about this thing on girls liking or not liking Craig, Sir Miles. Actually, I don't think any of us disliking Craig has even even remotely implied that people who like Craig are any different from those who don't in terms of looks, brains or anything else. It is merely taste and I have never seen anyone even remotely imply that those who like Craig are butch and manly. The only thing I ever said was that I find him to be more popular with British women, and that's because 90% of women I heard rave about Craig are British. I feel it really is the other way round, that people tried to tell us naysayers that we had tacky taste for liking Pierce (or were influenced by our "Italian nature" as Lexi said. But I absolutely embrace my Italian nature and am proud of our taste for everything stylish
http://commanderbond.net/article/2244
...which suggests that DAD could be the best Bond movie ever. Now I personally do not hate DAD like apparently everyone else does, but I'm just suggesting that the positive response on that board should be taken with a grain of salt.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I agree with you. I really enjoyed the first half of DAD, and I sure can't say the same about QoS
Speaking of our cave, I have a guest... starring as James Bond...
Fresh from the Australia premiere.... sigh, he really does look like James Bond... who was it that said he saw him in the trailers before QoS and noted how much he looks like Bond? I want my Hugh...
And you should be, Alessandra. I love the style of Italian things (clothes, cars, shoes, glasses,...) If I can afford them, I'd surround myself with Italian stuff (first on my list would be a Ferrari F430, or their latest car, the California; after that, I would get myself some Brioni suits ...
Thank you!!
I'm still very proud of the fact the Bolivian hotel suite in QoS was ALL Italian designed... just because it looked great. (well that at least!
Yes, if it's not too much trouble, could you bring over a Brioni just like the one Brozzer wore when he talked to M in Goldeneye ?
As to the general tone of CBn, a casual glance over there looks like the rest of this thread page, lotsa QOS hate being vented very freely - toss up really which got more hate at this point, Craig two years ago or QOS now.
Does seem that here and elsewhere, the minority voices are the negative ones, even if they're the loudest, with quite a bit of middle ground. Polarization has happened with QOS, but it's not the driving force that I assumed it was (those loud voices, ya know, both for and against). Considering the history of Bond on film, not very surprising really that there is dissatisfaction with the new film, seems there always is... perhaps one defining quality of the dissenters would be they've never experienced it with Bond before Craig? Not to marginalize those old-timey fans who also hate Craig or QOS, but the outrage feels... newborn? Weird for me as the last three guys weren't my Bond, and even if a couple of the films in there made me smile, most I wrote off with a shrug, disappointment came to be expected and a near constant state with Bond (but always hope too, sure). Probably why I have a thin skin when it comes to sweeping statements about Bond fans (I was hating back before it was fashionable to do so), and a thicker one re bad Bond films: that's been EON's MO, to make that which pays the bills, as opposed to making a great Bond film. IMHO. Nice to see they've finally found a way to do both with Craig on board (minority voices excepted, as it will always be).
Oh. Wow. Right, that's it. Here I stay.....:x
If he can pull out '60s darkness, he can pull out a British accent much more easily
And of course the cave has B&B Italia furniture like the Bolivian QoS suite.. I would also add a Poliform kitchen. And... the Bond girl should be picked by the men LOL. I can suggest Anna Valle and Giovanna Mezzogiorno as Italians, but there are so many around the world that it would be unfair to limit the choice so much, right?
@merseytart