The comments Horowitz made about Idris Elba have created a huge stir here in the US. The franchise is being called racist and there have been calls to boycott the films if Elba is not in the next one.
Idris is too... Idris. There's nothing about him in anyway that suggests Bond.
Back in the early 80s you'd look at Tim and Pierce and say, "yes, potential Bond" due to the roles they'd played and the way they carried themselves. Lazenby got the role because he looked and behaved like James Bond! Rog was the Saint and so James Bond became the Saint. Craig? Well, he was in Layer Cake...
But Idris has none of these qualities. Make a great John Shaft, though. But the Yanks aren't going to cast a Brit in such an iconic cultural role. And Idris and his management know that.
Theres no other stories around. Hence this Idris Elba/Horowicz rubbish
No, I don't see it as rubbish. When you use your freedom of speech, you're responsible for what you say, especially if it's work-related. I can't think of what else Horowicz could have meant.
The man used the wrong word. It's the impression he got from watching Luther. It's unlikely Horowitz is a true racist like Ian Fleming was.
I don't want to derail the Daniel Craig thread, but what is true racism? The KKK? I feel like it's often an excuse to justify casual racism, which is still very harmful. I live in the States, where there is severe racial inequality, so perhaps I'm biased in that regard.
I don't think Horowitz is a full-on racist. He's probably a decent guy with good intentions who made a mistake. Just like Roger Moore with the English-English comment. But the mistake is still there.
No, I don't see it as rubbish. When you use your freedom of speech, you're responsible for what you say, especially if it's work-related. I can't think of what else Horowicz could have meant.
The man used the wrong word. It's the impression he got from watching Luther. It's unlikely Horowitz is a true racist like Ian Fleming was.
I don't want to derail the Daniel Craig thread, but what is true racism? The KKK? I feel like it's often an excuse to justify casual racism, which is still very harmful. I live in the States, where there is severe racial inequality, so perhaps I'm biased in that regard.
I don't think Horowitz is a full-on racist. He's probably a decent guy with good intentions who made a mistake. Just like Roger Moore with the English-English comment. But the mistake is still there.
Horowitz did not make any racist comments. I believe he even qualified his "too street" remark in the same interview by stating that Elba was not "suave" enough. The American media attempts to stir racial tension at every opportunity. Often times it has been justified as of late. But in this instance it is not. If you live outside the U.S., it may be difficult to conceptualize just how backward the country is with respect to race relations. Horowitz has unwittingly stumbled into this.
I also think alot of it has to do with, although we share a language
with the US, we speak a different one, and something that may be see
As offensive over there is considered normal over here. A case in point
the word Fanny in America is used on kids TV as a cute word for bum, yet
over here you're never hear it on kids TV as it means something else.
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
I really wouldn't have known the expression until today, but would have worked it out to mean little bastards who hang around estates, street corner, shopping centres and the like on little bikes wearing hoodies, talking comic-strip BS and pretending they're hard.
No?
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 26,573Chief of Staff
I don't think Horowitz is a full-on racist. He's probably a decent guy with good intentions who made a mistake. Just like Roger Moore with the English-English comment. But the mistake is still there.
Can I ask how you get to 'racist' from 'too street' ? There is no logical connection
We have the terms 'street-wise' and 'street-cred' - neither imply 'black' or 'racist' ....
Horowitz did not make any racist comments. I believe he even qualified his "too street" remark in the same interview by stating that Elba was not "suave" enough.
And Daniel Craig is suave enough?
I'm not sure how one would be okay with Craig's brutish and thuggish portrayal of Bond and then say Elba's "street-ness" disqualifies him.
Horowitz did not make any racist comments. I believe he even qualified his "too street" remark in the same interview by stating that Elba was not "suave" enough.
And Daniel Craig is suave enough?
I'm not sure how one would be okay with Craig's brutish and thuggish portrayal of Bond and then say Elba's "street-ness" disqualifies him.
First off, I don't think Horowitz is that keen on Craig's Bond films, at least according to that interview.
Second, I cannot pretend to be in Horowitz's head, so I don't know what he thinks is "suave enough." The man obviously has lots of opinions about lots of things, and just because those opinions don't comport with the U.S. media's approved script for how one should discuss certain things doesn't make Horowitz a racist. Whether you agree with his basic assessment is another matter altogether.
Horowitz isn't a racist. I think he has good intentions but like many people he probably went along with the subtle stereotyping that cultures do. He made a mistake, but we all make mistakes from time to time.
From all that I've seen of Elba, he's very suave, gentlemanly, well-mannered, charismatic and IMO sexy. I'm still trying to find out what's so street and un-suave about him. Is it because he does some DJing on hiphop records? I hope not ; that's a really trivial reason to exclude somebody.
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,690MI6 Agent
Rather surprisingly I was able to purchase a paperback copy of Trigger Mortis today in Easons. It was discounted by £2. Looking forward to reading it. -{
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
I think there is anouther Book called Trigger Mortis
There was, it seems, a 50s pulp novel by that name
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,690MI6 Agent
edited September 2015
No, it's the right book. I got it in Northern Ireland. I couldn't believe it when I saw they had copies out already - I think they usually keep them in the back until the release date. It's the Orion paperback dated 2015. -{
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
Comments
As long as he didn't have too much when writing it, though that never stopped Fleming!
With Fleming the drink and the fags definitely did!
In this case I tend to agree with Horowitz's analysis.
Heard the phrase on TV and from Teenagers, so decided to use it
Himself.
Back in the early 80s you'd look at Tim and Pierce and say, "yes, potential Bond" due to the roles they'd played and the way they carried themselves. Lazenby got the role because he looked and behaved like James Bond! Rog was the Saint and so James Bond became the Saint. Craig? Well, he was in Layer Cake...
But Idris has none of these qualities. Make a great John Shaft, though. But the Yanks aren't going to cast a Brit in such an iconic cultural role. And Idris and his management know that.
No need to apologise, Tony, IMHO.
Some People just sadly look for things to be offended by.
I'm not here to stir the pot ; I'm honestly curious ; What do you think he meant by that comment?
I don't want to derail the Daniel Craig thread, but what is true racism? The KKK? I feel like it's often an excuse to justify casual racism, which is still very harmful. I live in the States, where there is severe racial inequality, so perhaps I'm biased in that regard.
I don't think Horowitz is a full-on racist. He's probably a decent guy with good intentions who made a mistake. Just like Roger Moore with the English-English comment. But the mistake is still there.
AJB007 Favorite Film Rankings
Pros and Cons Compendium (50 Years)
Horowitz did not make any racist comments. I believe he even qualified his "too street" remark in the same interview by stating that Elba was not "suave" enough. The American media attempts to stir racial tension at every opportunity. Often times it has been justified as of late. But in this instance it is not. If you live outside the U.S., it may be difficult to conceptualize just how backward the country is with respect to race relations. Horowitz has unwittingly stumbled into this.
with the US, we speak a different one, and something that may be see
As offensive over there is considered normal over here. A case in point
the word Fanny in America is used on kids TV as a cute word for bum, yet
over here you're never hear it on kids TV as it means something else.
No?
Can I ask how you get to 'racist' from 'too street' ? There is no logical connection
We have the terms 'street-wise' and 'street-cred' - neither imply 'black' or 'racist' ....
And Daniel Craig is suave enough?
I'm not sure how one would be okay with Craig's brutish and thuggish portrayal of Bond and then say Elba's "street-ness" disqualifies him.
AJB007 Favorite Film Rankings
Pros and Cons Compendium (50 Years)
First off, I don't think Horowitz is that keen on Craig's Bond films, at least according to that interview.
Second, I cannot pretend to be in Horowitz's head, so I don't know what he thinks is "suave enough." The man obviously has lots of opinions about lots of things, and just because those opinions don't comport with the U.S. media's approved script for how one should discuss certain things doesn't make Horowitz a racist. Whether you agree with his basic assessment is another matter altogether.
From all that I've seen of Elba, he's very suave, gentlemanly, well-mannered, charismatic and IMO sexy. I'm still trying to find out what's so street and un-suave about him. Is it because he does some DJing on hiphop records? I hope not ; that's a really trivial reason to exclude somebody.
AJB007 Favorite Film Rankings
Pros and Cons Compendium (50 Years)
It's brought out some haters in Britain too--The New Statesman, which has been faithfully attacking Fleming since 1958, published the following:
http://www.newstatesman.com/culture/books/2015/09/breaking-bond-ceiling-won-t-solve-british-cinema-s-race-problems
The author of that article also reviewed Trigger Mortis for the Guardian:
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/sep/02/trigger-mortis-anthony-horowitz-review-bond
But if it is the actual Book, then I'm rather confused as to how someone has gotten hold of it this early.
There was, it seems, a 50s pulp novel by that name
Strange, But lucky