Very disappointed Thomas Newman is doing the Spectre score

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  • broadshoulderbroadshoulder Acton, London, UKPosts: 1,363MI6 Agent
    Matt S wrote:

    Impressed. Like the choral music in it. I think we're on to a winner with Thomas Newman. The OHMSS bit at the end is quite strident
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  • Thunderbird 2Thunderbird 2 East of Cardiff, Wales.Posts: 2,749MI6 Agent
    edited October 2015
    Sorry, still not struck.
    As soon as the piece started I was immediately reminded of the Istanbul theme (not the instrumentation) from Skyfall. Seems the same in that regard. There are key pieces from the Skyfall Lodge themes in the last part, and I thought I caught one or two cues from the London chase as well? Its well orchestrated, but the composition strikes me as generic, and now somewhat unoriginal too. It's nice action music but it could be for Indiana Jones, Nolan's Batman, Bourne, or the MI films.

    On the bright side, I didn't know John Suchet was a presenter on Classic FM! I'm very pleased about that.
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  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,595MI6 Agent
    Matt S wrote:

    Impressed. Like the choral music in it. I think we're on to a winner with Thomas Newman. The OHMSS bit at the end is quite strident

    Can you point out where the OHMSS part is?

    Choral is definitely not right for Bond!
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  • Thunderbird 2Thunderbird 2 East of Cardiff, Wales.Posts: 2,749MI6 Agent
    Matt S wrote:

    Can you point out where the OHMSS part is?

    Choral is definitely not right for Bond!

    Yes, that's an example of the "bigger is better" concern I was referring to in my earlier post. The only place where that sort of thing works is literally in stellar scenes, such as in Moonraker, or more pertinently DAD. A choir was used for the Icarus weapon score.

    Matt, while I remember thanks for posting the link.
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  • blame_thatcherblame_thatcher Posts: 199MI6 Agent
    'Backfire' is obviously for the Rome car chase, so no doubt the choir will accompany shots of the Vatican.
  • blame_thatcherblame_thatcher Posts: 199MI6 Agent
    Gala Brand wrote:
    Ah, yes, disappointed that the composer is Thomas Newman, the guy with a dozen Oscar nominations, instead of David Arnold, the guy with precisely zero Oscar nominations.
    AKA the guy who got an Oscar nomination for a bland, characterless, anonymous Bond score, instead of John Barry who didn't get a single Oscar nomination for any of his amazing, classic, masterpiece Bond scores.
  • ShatterfangShatterfang Posts: 538MI6 Agent
    Arnold's score is gritty bond, Newman's score is EPIC Bond. It makes you feel like Bond. I prefer Newman
  • welshboy78welshboy78 Posts: 10,292MI6 Agent
    Thought it would be out this week - Nov 6th huh?
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  • Sriram858Sriram858 Posts: 182MI6 Agent
    So many themes from Skyfall when Silva was attacking the house.... Thought they would have kept it fresh and made something new
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,595MI6 Agent
    Arnold's score is gritty bond, Newman's score is EPIC Bond. It makes you feel like Bond. I prefer Newman

    Whilst Newman's score is indeed epic, it's not epic Bond. It has a Bond feel on rare occasions. David Arnold's TND score, whilst it isn't as well developed as it could be, makes me feel like Bond because it sounds like Bond and has the Bond theme all over the place.
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  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,985Quartermasters
    Sounds very exciting to me; and the Bond cues put me right in the moment -{ If not the car chase, then perhaps the Mexico City action sequence?
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  • Vicsane007Vicsane007 Posts: 167MI6 Agent
    Matt S wrote:

    Just listened to the track. Beginning at 4:50, why did he recycle the score (She's Mine) from Skyfall? Sounds exactly the same. :s
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  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,595MI6 Agent
    Vicsane007 wrote:
    Matt S wrote:

    Just listened to the track. Beginning at 4:50, why did he recycle the score (She's Mine) from Skyfall? Sounds exactly the same. :s

    It must be his Bond action theme, even though it's not a very memorable theme. Because it's all Bond, I don't have a problem with him reusing a cue so long as it makes sense. Hans Zimmer has no excuse when he reuses themes in unrelated films.
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  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,972MI6 Agent
    Matt S wrote:

    Impressed. Like the choral music in it. I think we're on to a winner with Thomas Newman. The OHMSS bit at the end is quite strident
    Better than his Skyfall work and very much a pastiche of Transformers' Scorponok, with some Hans Zimmer influences:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDFns0LA7O0
  • writingsonthewallwritingsonthewall SpainPosts: 417MI6 Agent
    Concur with the general sentiment here... too much Skyfall rehash. It's not that it reuses themes, it's that they sound exactly the same (instrumentation, tempo, etc) as in the previous soundtrack. If I wanted to hear lazily cut-and-pasted thems I would go rewatch the Star Wars prequels.
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  • BIG TAMBIG TAM Wrexham, North Wales, UK.Posts: 773MI6 Agent
    I like the 'Backfire' track. It serves its purpose, assuming it accompanies an action sequence - I can't imagine it'll go with a scene of romance, unless 007 goes like a rabbit! I liked Thomas Newman's score for SKYFALL. Different, as it should be. Though I like David Arnold I felt on occasion he was trying too hard to do John Barry-Karaoke. I don't understand this. John Barry is brilliant & cannot be replicated. Nobody should try & copy. I prefer what Marvin Hamlisch & Bill Conti did - stay true to the essence of the series but do your own thing. Much like the actor who plays Bond should also do. As for Newman copying himself, I've no problem with it. Barry regurgitated his 007 theme when appropriate & Arnold has shamelessly copied himself - the TND bike chase & TWINE boat chase share the same action cues albeit with different orchestrations.
  • blame_thatcherblame_thatcher Posts: 199MI6 Agent
    Gassy Man wrote:
    Better than his Skyfall work and very much a pastiche of Transformers' Scorponok, with some Hans Zimmer influences:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDFns0LA7O0
    A composer of Newman's status should not be influenced by Hack Zimmerframe.
  • blame_thatcherblame_thatcher Posts: 199MI6 Agent
    Sounds very exciting to me; and the Bond cues put me right in the moment -{ If not the car chase, then perhaps the Mexico City action sequence?
    It is for the car chase through Rome.
  • osrisosris Posts: 558MI6 Agent
    Matt S wrote:
    Composers have their own styles, and not every composer can or will do the big, brassy score that Barry, Hamlisch, Conti and Arnold so often did. Mendes clearly has a lot of respect for Newman and because of that I don't think he is going to micromanage him. Have you every heard a big, brassy score from Newman in the style of Barry? Newman's Skyfall score is even quite a departure for him in sounds and has a much bigger sound than his scores usually have. This is Newman's way of doing big brass. Even though Newman's Bond sound is different than his usual sound, his composition style hasn't changed from what he normally does, and that's a internal thing you can't simply tell a composer to change. Composers are often not right for certain films, and first choice composers are often rejected. John Barry has had rejected scores, and he has replaced rejected scores. Mendes' loyalty to Thomas Newman trumps all, which is something I respect.

    I agree. I thought Michel Legrand very unsuited for Never Say Never. Though that wasn't really a Bond film as such.
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,595MI6 Agent
    osris wrote:
    Matt S wrote:
    Composers have their own styles, and not every composer can or will do the big, brassy score that Barry, Hamlisch, Conti and Arnold so often did. Mendes clearly has a lot of respect for Newman and because of that I don't think he is going to micromanage him. Have you every heard a big, brassy score from Newman in the style of Barry? Newman's Skyfall score is even quite a departure for him in sounds and has a much bigger sound than his scores usually have. This is Newman's way of doing big brass. Even though Newman's Bond sound is different than his usual sound, his composition style hasn't changed from what he normally does, and that's a internal thing you can't simply tell a composer to change. Composers are often not right for certain films, and first choice composers are often rejected. John Barry has had rejected scores, and he has replaced rejected scores. Mendes' loyalty to Thomas Newman trumps all, which is something I respect.

    I agree. I thought Michel Legrand very unsuited for Never Say Never. Though that wasn't really a Bond film as such.

    I like Michel Legrand's score, but I can see why people who think Never Say Never Again is a Bond film might not like it. I even like Legrand's music for the film because Never Say Never Again is not a Bond film and I don't expect it to be one. I take it for what it is. Considering John Barry was the first choice for the film and they couldn't get him, you would have thought Kershner still would have wanted a Barry-like score. Legrand did the kind of score that he could do; you couldn't tell him it make it sound more like Barry because it's not the way he thinks. But it's all well-composed music nevertheless. 'Une Chanson D'Amour' is a fantastic song. But I wish some of the best cues in the film weren't missing from the soundtrack.
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  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,972MI6 Agent
    Gassy Man wrote:
    Better than his Skyfall work and very much a pastiche of Transformers' Scorponok, with some Hans Zimmer influences:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDFns0LA7O0
    A composer of Newman's status should not be influenced by Hack Zimmerframe.
    Ha, maybe. For what he does, I would put Hans Zimmer higher than Newman, who is generally quite derivative and forgettable, but to each their own. Here, though, Newman is stealing more from Steve Jablonsky (who stole from John Carpenter, among others) than Hans Zimmer, with a little of Danny Elfman's weird chorals.
  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,972MI6 Agent
    Matt S wrote:
    osris wrote:
    Matt S wrote:
    Composers have their own styles, and not every composer can or will do the big, brassy score that Barry, Hamlisch, Conti and Arnold so often did. Mendes clearly has a lot of respect for Newman and because of that I don't think he is going to micromanage him. Have you every heard a big, brassy score from Newman in the style of Barry? Newman's Skyfall score is even quite a departure for him in sounds and has a much bigger sound than his scores usually have. This is Newman's way of doing big brass. Even though Newman's Bond sound is different than his usual sound, his composition style hasn't changed from what he normally does, and that's a internal thing you can't simply tell a composer to change. Composers are often not right for certain films, and first choice composers are often rejected. John Barry has had rejected scores, and he has replaced rejected scores. Mendes' loyalty to Thomas Newman trumps all, which is something I respect.

    I agree. I thought Michel Legrand very unsuited for Never Say Never. Though that wasn't really a Bond film as such.

    I like Michel Legrand's score, but I can see why people who think Never Say Never Again is a Bond film might not like it. I even like Legrand's music for the film because Never Say Never Again is not a Bond film and I don't expect it to be one. I take it for what it is. Considering John Barry was the first choice for the film and they couldn't get him, you would have thought Kershner still would have wanted a Barry-like score. Legrand did the kind of score that he could do; you couldn't tell him it make it sound more like Barry because it's not the way he thinks. But it's all well-composed music nevertheless. 'Une Chanson D'Amour' is a fantastic song. But I wish some of the best cues in the film weren't missing from the soundtrack.
    Legrand's score, on the whole, is awful, which is interesting considering he can do some action films. He scored The Umbrellas of Cherbourg, The Thomas Crown Affair, and Ice Station Zebra, all of which are memorable. His strength has never been melody-- it's hard to whistle all but a few of his scores -- but he could have produced something much better than the muddy tracks for NSNA, and the theme song alone should have been enough to keep him out of composing.
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,595MI6 Agent
    Gassy Man wrote:
    Matt S wrote:
    osris wrote:

    I agree. I thought Michel Legrand very unsuited for Never Say Never. Though that wasn't really a Bond film as such.

    I like Michel Legrand's score, but I can see why people who think Never Say Never Again is a Bond film might not like it. I even like Legrand's music for the film because Never Say Never Again is not a Bond film and I don't expect it to be one. I take it for what it is. Considering John Barry was the first choice for the film and they couldn't get him, you would have thought Kershner still would have wanted a Barry-like score. Legrand did the kind of score that he could do; you couldn't tell him it make it sound more like Barry because it's not the way he thinks. But it's all well-composed music nevertheless. 'Une Chanson D'Amour' is a fantastic song. But I wish some of the best cues in the film weren't missing from the soundtrack.
    Legrand's score, on the whole, is awful, which is interesting considering he can do some action films. He scored The Umbrellas of Cherbourg, The Thomas Crown Affair, and Ice Station Zebra, all of which are memorable. His strength has never been melody-- it's hard to whistle all but a few of his scores -- but he could have produced something much better than the muddy tracks for NSNA, and the theme song alone should have been enough to keep him out of composing.

    I completely disagree, especially about his strength not being melody. The Windmills of Your Mind is very whistleable. I take it you've never heard Brian's Song or The Summer Knows? NSNA is not amongst his best works, but the two songs he wrote for the film are decent songs. Not Bond songs, but decent songs nonetheless.
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  • ShatterfangShatterfang Posts: 538MI6 Agent
    I got bored, went to youtube, and played Backfire while watching that Die Another Day car chase on ice. They went together seemlessly and it ends at almost the exact same time.
  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,972MI6 Agent
    Matt S wrote:
    Gassy Man wrote:
    Matt S wrote:

    I like Michel Legrand's score, but I can see why people who think Never Say Never Again is a Bond film might not like it. I even like Legrand's music for the film because Never Say Never Again is not a Bond film and I don't expect it to be one. I take it for what it is. Considering John Barry was the first choice for the film and they couldn't get him, you would have thought Kershner still would have wanted a Barry-like score. Legrand did the kind of score that he could do; you couldn't tell him it make it sound more like Barry because it's not the way he thinks. But it's all well-composed music nevertheless. 'Une Chanson D'Amour' is a fantastic song. But I wish some of the best cues in the film weren't missing from the soundtrack.
    Legrand's score, on the whole, is awful, which is interesting considering he can do some action films. He scored The Umbrellas of Cherbourg, The Thomas Crown Affair, and Ice Station Zebra, all of which are memorable. His strength has never been melody-- it's hard to whistle all but a few of his scores -- but he could have produced something much better than the muddy tracks for NSNA, and the theme song alone should have been enough to keep him out of composing.

    I completely disagree, especially about his strength not being melody. The Windmills of Your Mind is very whistleable. I take it you've never heard Brian's Song or The Summer Knows? NSNA is not amongst his best works, but the two songs he wrote for the film are decent songs. Not Bond songs, but decent songs nonetheless.
    I've heard them. Legrand's work has melodies -- just not very strong or satisfying ones. They seem influenced more by bebop jazz or something. His overture for ISZ is good but about as close as he comes to traditional epic scores.
  • Mach_eyyMach_eyy Detroit/Warsaw Posts: 36MI6 Agent
    Just wondering if anyone else thought that the section from roughly 4:25 to 4:40 sounds oddly similar to "Brave New World" from Skyfall?
  • Vicsane007Vicsane007 Posts: 167MI6 Agent
    Mach_eyy wrote:
    Just wondering if anyone else thought that the section from roughly 4:25 to 4:40 sounds oddly similar to "Brave New World" from Skyfall?


    Brave New World + The Bloody Shot + She's Mine are all in this track. Basically he's just recycling from the last sound track. I am very disappointed. David Arnold was much better.
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  • writingsonthewallwritingsonthewall SpainPosts: 417MI6 Agent
    Vicsane007 wrote:
    Mach_eyy wrote:
    Just wondering if anyone else thought that the section from roughly 4:25 to 4:40 sounds oddly similar to "Brave New World" from Skyfall?


    Brave New World + The Bloody Shot + She's Mine are all in this track. Basically he's just recycling from the last sound track. I am very disappointed. David Arnold was much better.

    This.
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  • Gala BrandGala Brand Posts: 1,171MI6 Agent
    Because if there's one thing that's absolutely unacceptable in a Bond film, it's reusing music from previous films. :))
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,595MI6 Agent
    Gala Brand wrote:
    Because if there's one thing that's absolutely unacceptable in a Bond film, it's reusing music from previous films. :))

    Monty Norman's cues from Dr. No were pretty awful in FRWL. And I never liked how the original recording of the James Bond theme was thrown into most of the Bond films in the 60s. John Barry didn't like that either. When John Barry reused things like his "007", he always orchestrated it differently. Newman's cues sound exactly the same.
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