Very disappointed Thomas Newman is doing the Spectre score

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  • JG007JG007 Manchester , United KingdomPosts: 276MI6 Agent
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  • walther p99walther p99 NJPosts: 3,416MI6 Agent
    edited October 2015
    Listening to the whole score now, so far its pretty forgettable, most tracks seem interchangeable. Not a lot of oomph or power in the composition. my favorite moment of the score right now is the end of "detonation", feels like the score finally gets some energy and excitement when the Bond theme plays.
  • MrZarebaMrZareba Krakow, PolandPosts: 1,775MI6 Agent
    Full soundtrack on Spotify. -{
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,595MI6 Agent
    I'm disappointed to find that the instrumental version of Writing's on the Wall on the soundtrack is the karaoke version. Many of Barry's Bond soundtracks had instrumental versions of the theme, which were full pieces that included the melody. At least now I have the perfect backing track so I can record my own version! :o
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • PDJamesBondPDJamesBond Posts: 180MI6 Agent
    I listened to the whole score and WOW, what a crushing disappointment. Well, I shouldn’t really call it a disappointment – after Skyfall, I wasn’t expecting much. But I got even less. All I got was some ambient thudding noises with some scrape-sounding violins thrown in (has anyone else noticed that 80% of Newman’s work on both SF and SP sounds like the Joker’s theme from The Dark Knight?) and nothing memorable in terms of composition or theme. Even worse, he barely uses the Bond theme, and when he does, it’s just minor background stuff. It never once comes out full force.

    I love Mendes, but I’ll be glad if he leaves for the sole reason that it means Newman won’t return.
  • blame_thatcherblame_thatcher Posts: 199MI6 Agent
    Another lousy score from Newman who shouldn't be anywhere near this series of films. It seems everyone apart from Mendes is aware of this.
  • Thunderbird 2Thunderbird 2 East of Cardiff, Wales.Posts: 2,749MI6 Agent
    I listened to the whole score and WOW, what a crushing disappointment. Well, I shouldn’t really call it a disappointment – after Skyfall, I wasn’t expecting much. But I got even less. All I got was some ambient thudding noises with some scrape-sounding violins thrown in (has anyone else noticed that 80% of Newman’s work on both SF and SP sounds like the Joker’s theme from The Dark Knight?) and nothing memorable in terms of composition or theme. Even worse, he barely uses the Bond theme, and when he does, it’s just minor background stuff. It never once comes out full force.

    I love Mendes, but I’ll be glad if he leaves for the sole reason that it means Newman won’t return.

    Oh good, I said back in post 63 I thought it had a generic Indiana Jones / Nolan's Batman vibe. Glad it wasn't just me!
    Be careful what you wish for PDJ. Even if Mr Mendes doesn't come back, that's no garuntee we aren't stuck with Newman for the duration.

    Still as noted, we will see the full context as of Monday / Tuesday.
    This is Thunderbird 2, how can I be of assistance?
  • Gala BrandGala Brand Posts: 1,171MI6 Agent
    Another lousy score from Newman who shouldn't be anywhere near this series of films. It seems everyone apart from Mendes is aware of this.

    Well, Steven Spielberg hired Newman to do the score on "Bridge of Spies" but what does Spielberg know about movies compared to the members of AJB?

    BTW, Newman is the early favorite to win the Oscar for best score for his work on "Bridge of Spies."
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,595MI6 Agent
    I just listened to the whole thing. It is without a doubt the blandest Bond score. It's not going to add anything to the film, but it's not going to take away from the film either. Except for the end of "Detonation" and the beginning of "Westminster Bridge" it is completely generic music. Who would know this is music for a James Bond film?

    "Donna Lucia" and "Madeline" are the best two tracks, since they're the only two with any musical substance. Thomas Newman hasn't done any other actions films besides Bond and doesn't know how to translate his ability to write romantic music to action music.
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,595MI6 Agent
    Gala Brand wrote:
    Another lousy score from Newman who shouldn't be anywhere near this series of films. It seems everyone apart from Mendes is aware of this.

    Well, Steven Spielberg hired Newman to do the score on "Bridge of Spies" but what does Spielberg know about movies compared to the members of AJB?

    BTW, Newman is the early favorite to win the Oscar for best score for his work on "Bridge of Spies."

    Can you tell us why you think Newman is a great composer? And why he's a great composer for Bond? You've only been backing up Newman based on credentials. I personally know and work with people who have excellent credentials but produce lousy work.
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • MrZarebaMrZareba Krakow, PolandPosts: 1,775MI6 Agent
    Matt S wrote:
    I just listened to the whole thing. It is without a doubt the blandest Bond score. It's not going to add anything to the film, but it's not going to take away from the film either. Except for the end of "Detonation" and the beginning of "Westminster Bridge" it is completely generic music. Who would know this is music for a James Bond film?

    "Donna Lucia" and "Madeline" are the best two tracks, since they're the only two with any musical substance. Thomas Newman hasn't done any other actions films besides Bond and doesn't know how to translate his ability to write romantic music to action music.

    I respect your opinion and I agree partially - mainly because it feels very much like a recycled "Skyfall" soundtrack for most of the time. On the other hand however maybe Sam Mendes wanted it to have a lot of different familiar cues from the previous movie, just like "The Dark Knight Rises" had. As for the particular tracks I'm a huge fan of the "Secret Room" - I have a feeling this track will be acompanied by a strong emotional scene.
  • blame_thatcherblame_thatcher Posts: 199MI6 Agent
    Gala Brand wrote:
    Well, Steven Spielberg hired Newman to do the score on "Bridge of Spies" but what does Spielberg know about movies compared to the members of AJB?
    But would Spielberg hire Newman to write an Indiana Jones score? Newman can be a very good composer but he just can't get it together for Bond. I don't think it's his fault entirely, he's just miscast in the role. His sensibilities just don't match up with Bond films.
  • Gala BrandGala Brand Posts: 1,171MI6 Agent
    Gala Brand wrote:
    Well, Steven Spielberg hired Newman to do the score on "Bridge of Spies" but what does Spielberg know about movies compared to the members of AJB?
    But would Spielberg hire Newman to write an Indiana Jones score? Newman can be a very good composer but he just can't get it together for Bond. I don't think it's his fault entirely, he's just miscast in the role. His sensibilities just don't match up with Bond films.


    Then your complaint is with Mendes, since he hired Newman.
  • JimatayJimatay Posts: 126MI6 Agent
    I feel sorry for the people who brought the soundtrack when most of it is reused from Skyfall.
  • Gala BrandGala Brand Posts: 1,171MI6 Agent
    Matt S wrote:
    Gala Brand wrote:
    Another lousy score from Newman who shouldn't be anywhere near this series of films. It seems everyone apart from Mendes is aware of this.

    Well, Steven Spielberg hired Newman to do the score on "Bridge of Spies" but what does Spielberg know about movies compared to the members of AJB?

    BTW, Newman is the early favorite to win the Oscar for best score for his work on "Bridge of Spies."

    Can you tell us why you think Newman is a great composer? And why he's a great composer for Bond? You've only been backing up Newman based on credentials. I personally know and work with people who have excellent credentials but produce lousy work.

    Yes, I think Newman's work is excellent at an almost subliminal level. The music is there and it's enhancing the emotion of what's on the screen but you're not really aware of it--which is good. If you're watching the movie and thinking about the music then that's a bad thing.

    This is the problem with buying the music and listening to it without seeing what's on screen. The music without the film is meaningless. The music is only there to service the film.

    I'm honestly surprised that people even buy soundtracks, but apparently it's a thing.

    The same goes for watching a thirty-second clip and commenting on how "cheesy" the music sounds. This isn't how you see the movie in the theatre and without seeing the scene in the context of the whole movie, you're not in a position to comment on the music.

    It's as bad as trying to judge how good the movie will be based solely on the trailers.

    Hope that helps.
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,595MI6 Agent
    MrZareba wrote:
    Matt S wrote:
    I just listened to the whole thing. It is without a doubt the blandest Bond score. It's not going to add anything to the film, but it's not going to take away from the film either. Except for the end of "Detonation" and the beginning of "Westminster Bridge" it is completely generic music. Who would know this is music for a James Bond film?

    "Donna Lucia" and "Madeline" are the best two tracks, since they're the only two with any musical substance. Thomas Newman hasn't done any other actions films besides Bond and doesn't know how to translate his ability to write romantic music to action music.

    I respect your opinion and I agree partially - mainly because it feels very much like a recycled "Skyfall" soundtrack for most of the time. On the other hand however maybe Sam Mendes wanted it to have a lot of different familiar cues from the previous movie, just like "The Dark Knight Rises" had. As for the particular tracks I'm a huge fan of the "Secret Room" - I have a feeling this track will be acompanied by a strong emotional scene.

    Reusing things isn't even my biggest complaint. My biggest complaint is that apart from "Donna Lucia" and "Madeline", the music has so little substance. And you'd think with all the classic Bond things returning in Spectre that Mendes would want just a little bit of Bond in the music. All we have are a few breadcrumbs. Maybe the soundtrack album is like the Moonraker album and all the pieces that have the Bond theme didn't make it so Monty Norman won't get any money from the album sales.
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • blame_thatcherblame_thatcher Posts: 199MI6 Agent
    Gala Brand wrote:
    Then your complaint is with Mendes, since he hired Newman.
    I've already alluded to that.
  • blame_thatcherblame_thatcher Posts: 199MI6 Agent
    Jimatay wrote:
    I feel sorry for the people who brought the soundtrack when most of it is reused from Skyfall.
    That's the most disappointing thing about it. Newman actually started developing ideas for the score while the film was still shooting (I know that for a fact if anyone's thinking of disputing that), so to actually reuse so much material is incredibly lazy.
  • walther p99walther p99 NJPosts: 3,416MI6 Agent
    other then the end of "detonation" Newman really doesn't do anything grand or epic with the Bond theme, at least using it in a new way like he did with in SF in "someone usually dies" and the end of "breadcrumbs". But then again we don't have the gunbarrel music yet or any unused cues. But the action music was incredibly dull, I actually think his action music in SF was better and less fussy, "shes Mine" is one of my favorite bond tracks.
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,595MI6 Agent
    A Bond soundtrack shouldn't make me think that I can write a better soundtrack. I know I could write a soundtrack in the style of John Barry and David Arnold. That woudn't make me a great composer since I'd just be copying another style, but Newman's action music in Spectre is just copying Hans Zimmer and his disciples. Unlike Barry, Newman offers nothing original in his style.
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,972MI6 Agent
    I listened to the whole score and WOW, what a crushing disappointment. Well, I shouldn’t really call it a disappointment – after Skyfall, I wasn’t expecting much. But I got even less. All I got was some ambient thudding noises with some scrape-sounding violins thrown in (has anyone else noticed that 80% of Newman’s work on both SF and SP sounds like the Joker’s theme from The Dark Knight?) and nothing memorable in terms of composition or theme. Even worse, he barely uses the Bond theme, and when he does, it’s just minor background stuff. It never once comes out full force.

    I love Mendes, but I’ll be glad if he leaves for the sole reason that it means Newman won’t return.
    They've been taking cues from the Nolan Batman films for years, so it doesn't surprise me that the soundtrack would, too.

    Newman's bland, derivative style is in many ways similar to Mendes's directing style, as he likes a combination of ponderous, pseudo-intellectual shots (singular people/vehicles moving through vast natural terrains) and lots of people standing in poses. He seems to take his visual sense from comic books. Both have a "less is more" approach that really amounts to "less is less."
  • hstansburyhstansbury Posts: 9MI6 Agent
    It boils down to this: the bond music is a character in each film, just like the star wars theme and the Indiana jones theme and the back to the future theme.

    As a character that gets you excited, has been nearly absent from the Newman.
  • perdoggperdogg Posts: 432MI6 Agent
    Does any one have the proper sequence yet?
    "And if I told you that I'm from the Ministry of Defence?" James Bond - The Property of a Lady
  • MrZarebaMrZareba Krakow, PolandPosts: 1,775MI6 Agent
    I have to admit now that after listening to the whole soundtrack a few times my absolute favourites are "Secret Room" and "Out of Bullets". There is something really emotional in the new cues which makes me think about my past, maybe it will play the same role in the movie? Bond explaining his past to someone? I don't know. I just love them, I get pretty emotional while listening to them -{
  • agent 00agent 00 Univex Station L Netherlands Posts: 340MI6 Agent
    Here is the complete tracklist from SPECTRE

    1. Los Muertos Vivos Estan (From "Spectre" Soundtrack)
    2. Vauxhall Bridge (From "Spectre" Soundtrack)
    3. The Eternal City (From "Spectre" Soundtrack)
    4. Donna Lucia (From "Spectre" Soundtrack)
    5. A Place Without Mercy (From "Spectre" Soundtrack)
    6. Backfire (From "SpectreSoundtrack)
    7. Crows Klinik (From "Spectre" Soundtrack)
    8. The Pale King (From "Spectre" Soundtrack)
    9. Madeleine (From "Spectre" Soundtrack)
    10. Kite In A Hurricane (From "Spectre" Soundtrack)
    11. Snow Plane (From "Spectre" Soundtrack)
    12. L' Americain (From "Spectre" Soundtrack)
    13. Secret Room (From "Spectre" Soundtrack)
    14. Hinx (From "Spectre" Soundtrack)
    15. Writing's On The Wall (Instrumental / From "Spectre" Soundtrack)
    16. Silver Wraith (From "Spectre" Soundtrack)
    17. A Reunion (From "Spectre" Soundtrack)
    18. Day Of The Dead (From "Spectre" Soundtrack)
    19. Tempus Fugit (From "Spectre" Soundtrack)
    20. Safe House (From "Spectre" Soundtrack)
    21. Blindfold (From "Spectre" Soundtrack)
    22. Careless (From "Spectre" Soundtrack)
    23. Detonation (From "Spectre" Soundtrack)
    24. Westminster Bridge (From "Spectre" Soundtrack)
    25. Out Of Bullets (From "Spectre" Soundtrack)
    26. Spectre (End Title / From "Spectre" Soundtrack)

    Enjoy and it's on Spotify to listen {[]
    Jan

    " Sono Topolino, e tu chi saresti? ".
    http://www.facebook.com/agent00univex
  • Gala BrandGala Brand Posts: 1,171MI6 Agent
    edited October 2015
    hstansbury wrote:
    It boils down to this: the bond music is a character in each film, just like the star wars theme and the Indiana jones theme and the back to the future theme.

    As a character that gets you excited, has been nearly absent from the Newman.

    The three films you cite are all more than thirty years old.

    That should tell you something.

    Movies used to have extended sequences where not much happened.

    Here's an example we are all familiar with.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHvIv01QNhA

    That's a four-and-a-half minute scene. The only conflict is when Mr. Solo gets upset at Oddjob for missing the exit. The only drama is when Solo gets shot (five seconds) and the beginning of the car crushing when we wonder what's going on and then almost immediately realize what's going to happen.

    Otherwise, it's a lot of cars just driving around (featuring the world's most boring version of Felix Leiter) at normal speed and then an extended scene showing how a car gets crushed that seems like something from my junior high school industrial arts class.

    The only thing that keeps the scene moving is the score.

    Today, you wouldn't get anything like that in a movie. Instead, you'd see Oddjob and Solo drive away in the Lincoln, then another scene (maybe Bond and Pussy engaging in horseplay in the barn) and then the pickup comes back. Bond asks what happened to the Lincoln, Oddjob points at the block of scrap of metal, a look of understanding on Bond's face, then Bond asks "And, Mr. Solo?" And Oddjob points at the block again. A tiny little piece of music to underscore Bond's disappointment that his plan failed and Goldfinger asks to be excused while he separates Mr. Solo from his gold.

    Twenty seconds at most and more interesting because it's left up to the audience to figure out what happened.

    The score isn't supposed to be a "character" in the film anymore. It's expected to subtly underscore what the characters are feeling and the emotion of the scene.
  • HowardBHowardB USAPosts: 2,735MI6 Agent
    IMO one cannot judge a film score without hearing within the context of the film. For me, no one will ever live up to Barry because like Connery and the first 4 films themselves they were unique and original. I am guessing based upon the number of short clips from SPECTRE that I have seen that the score is good, maybe better than Hamlish, Kamen or Conte's approaches but not memorable classics that can stand on their own like most Barry Bond scores. I am such a Barry fan that I believe the best approach would be to bring Arnold back and task him with aping classic Barry as much as possible, including the return of the "007" action theme and a requierment by the producers that the theme song be a collaboration on some level between the guest artist and Arnold.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    +1 -{
    Let's hear how it plays out in the film. :)
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,595MI6 Agent
    Gala Brand wrote:
    hstansbury wrote:
    It boils down to this: the bond music is a character in each film, just like the star wars theme and the Indiana jones theme and the back to the future theme.

    As a character that gets you excited, has been nearly absent from the Newman.

    The three films you cite are all more than thirty years old.

    That should tell you something.

    Movies used to have extended sequences where not much happened.

    What does being 30 years old have to do with it? Don't just say "times change", give some reasons. Indiana Jones had some very intense and fast action scenes along the lines of modern Bond films, and the proper music worked better than anything in Skyfall did. Do you think that Arnold's scores were bad because they had some melody and musical development? There's still plenty of room in modern films to have developed music in the score. Recent Oscar-winner (since it matters to you) Michael Giacchino has shown that.
    +1 -{
    Let's hear how it plays out in the film. :)

    That still won't change that the music is bland and meaningless. My opinion of the Skyfall soundtrack didn't change one bit after I heard it in the context of the film. It added a lot of mood to the film, which I expected it to and which I'm sure the Spectre soundtrack will do as well. But it didn't help engage me in the film like Barry's and Arnold's scores have done.
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    It seems you've already made up your mind
    To hate it. ;)
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
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