But remember that there were shooting outside and a chase in the streets...
Have you seen the ring? Craig vs. Bond!
Yes, the ring is very visible in the second half of the advert. It's going to be interesting whether he takes off the ring when he's 'shooting' scenes, one imagines this is 20 seconds of a much longer 'short film' advert which Heineken has a history of making. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=heineken+short+film+advert
I didn't know Hans Zimmer scored the 1994 and the 2019 versions of The Lion King. Listening to tracks from the 2019 version and revisiting the Inception score I am more and more confident that Zimmer and his cohorts will deliver a really good NTTD score. Inception isn't as electronic as I remember and I think people are getting hung up on the superhero movie scores. I think Lorne Balfe is working on NTTD also and his MI:Fallout score was very faithful to the Mission Impossible tune. I am hoping they can incorporate the theme tune into the score. I am guessing we'll hear about who has done the theme in late February.
I've been listening to Bond scores longer than most members here have been alive. I started buying Bond and Barry music in the late 60s.
Hearing that Hans Zimmer will be responsible for the next Bond score is the most depressing Bond musical news I've heard since hearing that Thomas Newman would be returning for SPECTRE. I'm not looking forward to it.
I own a few of Zimmer's scores, and I don't think he's appropriate for Bond. Of course I'd be happy to be proven to be wrong!
I've been listening to Bond scores longer than most members here have been alive. I started buying Bond and Barry music in the late 60s.
Hearing that Hans Zimmer will be responsible for the next Bond score is the most depressing Bond musical news I've heard since hearing that Thomas Newman would be returning for SPECTRE. I'm not looking forward to it.
I own a few of Zimmer's scores, and I don't think he's appropriate for Bond. Of course I'd be happy to be proven to be wrong!
I completely feel the same way you do. I've only been buying Bond scores and Barry scores for over two decades. I remember when Gladiator came out and a good friend of mine was all over Zimmer's score. I listened to the soundtrack on CD and had no idea what was talking about it. He told me I had to see the movie to appreciate the music. That's what was wrong with the music: it couldn't stand alone. If it can't stand alone it is not good music. It may get by as a film score, but it's inferior music.
Everything John Barry wrote can be fully appreciated without seeing the film. The same goes for any good film composer.
I've listened to countless film scores by composers like Barry, Arnold, Conti, Williams, Goldsmith, Horner, North, Herrman, Giacchino, Desplat and others without ever seeing the films the music was written for. I may be missing some part of the musical experience by not knowing what inspired these composers to write the music, but good music is good music no matter the context. There is music theory to back this up. And a great composer even writes each instrument's part in the orchestra to be a unique, interesting voice.
Maybe I'm too much of a musician, but Zimmer frequently fails the test of what makes a good composer. He sometimes has great ideas, but he's not enough of a composer to be able to turn them into a good piece of music overall.
I've been listening to Bond scores longer than most members here have been alive. I started buying Bond and Barry music in the late 60s.
Hearing that Hans Zimmer will be responsible for the next Bond score is the most depressing Bond musical news I've heard since hearing that Thomas Newman would be returning for SPECTRE. I'm not looking forward to it.
I own a few of Zimmer's scores, and I don't think he's appropriate for Bond. Of course I'd be happy to be proven to be wrong!
I completely feel the same way you do. I've only been buying Bond scores and Barry scores for over two decades. I remember when Gladiator came out and a good friend of mine was all over Zimmer's score. I listened to the soundtrack on CD and had no idea what was talking about it. He told me I had to see the movie to appreciate the music. That's what was wrong with the music: it couldn't stand alone. If it can't stand alone it is not good music. It may get by as a film score, but it's inferior music.
Everything John Barry wrote can be fully appreciated without seeing the film. The same goes for any good film composer.
I've listened to countless film scores by composers like Barry, Arnold, Conti, Williams, Goldsmith, Horner, North, Herrman, Giacchino, Desplat and others without ever seeing the films the music was written for. I may be missing some part of the musical experience by not knowing what inspired these composers to write the music, but good music is good music no matter the context. There is music theory to back this up. And a great composer even writes each instrument's part in the orchestra to be a unique, interesting voice.
Maybe I'm too much of a musician, but Zimmer frequently fails the test of what makes a good composer. He sometimes has great ideas, but he's not enough of a composer to be able to turn them into a good piece of music overall.
I think your perspectives are unique because you are both students of music, and I appreciate what you add to this discussion. That said, I come at music from a different perspective. I don’t know a thing about music theory. I base what I like on how it makes me feel. I think I agree, at least in principle, with your friend who said that you need to see the movie to enjoy the music. It’s a lower bar, but that doesn’t make the music bad. By contrast, not only is Newman’s Spectre score miserable to listen to on its own, it actively detracts from my experience watching the film. For me, that’s bad.
I love Barry (I own many of the scores), and I wish they would’ve asked David Arnold, but I think there is a good chance Zimmer will come up with something that, at a minimum, improves upon what Newman did.
I think your perspectives are unique because you are both students of music, and I appreciate what you add to this discussion. That said, I come at music from a different perspective. I don’t know a thing about music theory. I base what I like on how it makes me feel.
I also base music I like on how it makes me feel, but I can use my basic knowledge of music theory to explain why certain music makes me feel a certain way and why Zimmer is a poor choice for Bond. 20 years ago I didn't have the musical education that I would have a few years later, but Zimmer's music both alone and in the context of a film made me feel unsatisfied. Now I have the knowledge to explain why he's almost the opposite of a composer like John Barry.
I’m a musician also and I think if you look at the staggering amount of work Zimmer has done and how different the genres etc are , you are nuts to write him off.
You can not argue that journey to the line from the thin red line is not emotional with or without the viewing of the movie.
He’s exactly like Barry in the sense that he is a pop musician turned film composer.
I’m not a huge fan but I’ll give him a fair shake. His music in man of steel was also melodic .
You mentioned Horner and what always got to me was he always repeats his self, his score in wrath of khan, aliens, and patriot games have entire sections lifted piece by piece and interchanged.
As for time period, giachinno wrote the score to rogue one in 2 weeks, after Desplats music was deemed unsuitable.
I have to say, I love the score for Pirates of The Caribbean. I’m not sure how much is Zimmer and how much is his protege Klaus Badelt, but it’s a rousing and fun score which in many places stands alone from the film, in the same way that other great scores can.
Zimmer and his team can crank out a score in a couple of months time. They probably didn’t have many options given the time constraints (good people in any profession tend to be busy). I’m sure they are paying a premium for Zimmer, and he is a big name, so it won’t hurt the image of the film. Unfortunately, my guess is it’ll be highly generic.
A cranked out score is hardly a good thing, in my view. I see bad omens on all of this.
Forgive me if this has been posted on here before, but I think with the recent news of Zimmer composing No Time To Die, i think this article has some new interest attached to it. This is Zimmer writing about John Barry, shortly after Barry's death.
"When I heard that John had died Jan. 30 at 77, I instantly recalled his tune for The Quiller Memorandum, which is probably not one of his better-known scores. I can remember where I was when I first heard it, much as I can remember where I was the first time I heard his music for Born Free. Here's the thing: I cannot remember the stories of those movies in detail, but I remember the tunes. Sometimes the reason we have such deep and lasting emotional connections to movies is the music, and everything that made the mood of those movies work was from John. The melody is what keeps you tied to a movie forever, and he wrote some of the greatest melodies.
My favorites are more obscure than Out of Africa, Dances with Wolves or the James Bond film scores for which he was so famous. I will admit, though, that we looked at On Her Majesty's Secret Service when we were doing Inception and were just blown away by the musical innovation. I loved Hammett and the way John created a melancholic and nostalgic sense of time and place. I also loved Zulu; the whole score is based on one short motif, so strong and so bold.
Like the work of all good composers, everything John wrote was elegant and came from his own point of view. He was a Yorkshire man, and even in his brightest work, you could always see the moors and the fog. Even his cheeky stuff had an underlying darkness.
John was part of a particular era in London, an era when the city had so much to say to the world. Ridley Scott would tell me how he used to hang out at John's recording sessions. He'd say, "Wow, John Barry's doing a session. Maybe we can sneak in and hear something." But for me, it was more like, "Maybe I can sneak in and learn something." I learned from him that moody is good. There haven't been that many deserving film-music legends. John truly was one of them."
Zimmer and his team can crank out a score in a couple of months time. They probably didn’t have many options given the time constraints (good people in any profession tend to be busy). I’m sure they are paying a premium for Zimmer, and he is a big name, so it won’t hurt the image of the film. Unfortunately, my guess is it’ll be highly generic.
A cranked out score is hardly a good thing, in my view. I see bad omens on all of this.
Cant really do anything about it now except wait and see, or rather listen.
I expected Fukunaga to pick someone new to score Bond this time, something he did when he chose Rohmer. I rather looked forward to hearing his work, but the fact that EON replaced him this close to the release indicates we were saved from the next Eric Serra. Zimmer may not be the right man if they want something new and exciting, but he and his "factory" are probably a safe bet for getting a competent score out in time. Just like Walter p99 I'm just going to wait on passing judgement until I hear the score.
would be impossible to ignore this man in a bar, what a presence
that look to the side...seems he have a comedy-talent
I'm not happy with Zimmer aswell. Pirates of the Caribbean is based on a amusement park attraction and the music underlines this.
his music always tells the audience what they have to feel, like a instruction for emotions.
Dan Romer was a very interestig choice
Zimmer and his team can crank out a score in a couple of months time. They probably didn’t have many options given the time constraints (good people in any profession tend to be busy). I’m sure they are paying a premium for Zimmer, and he is a big name, so it won’t hurt the image of the film. Unfortunately, my guess is it’ll be highly generic.
A cranked out score is hardly a good thing, in my view. I see bad omens on all of this.
As I've said before, there's enough time for them to write a score without rushing. Of all the things to worry about with the music, worrying that they don't have enough time should not be one of them.
Zimmer and his team can crank out a score in a couple of months time. They probably didn’t have many options given the time constraints (good people in any profession tend to be busy). I’m sure they are paying a premium for Zimmer, and he is a big name, so it won’t hurt the image of the film. Unfortunately, my guess is it’ll be highly generic.
A cranked out score is hardly a good thing, in my view. I see bad omens on all of this.
Cant really do anything about it now except wait and see, or rather listen.
Agreed, but cant say that I'm enthused
Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
Zimmer would not be my first choice but I think at least there's a better chance of getting a decent score than a bad score. I cringe to think what Romer was up to that caused EON to part ways with him. Number24's Eric Serra reference could be very well on point.
Zimmer and his team can crank out a score in a couple of months time. They probably didn’t have many options given the time constraints (good people in any profession tend to be busy). I’m sure they are paying a premium for Zimmer, and he is a big name, so it won’t hurt the image of the film. Unfortunately, my guess is it’ll be highly generic.
A cranked out score is hardly a good thing, in my view. I see bad omens on all of this.
As I've said before, there's enough time for them to write a score without rushing. Of all the things to worry about with the music, worrying that they don't have enough time should not be one of them.
Yes, elsewhere someone said Zimmer excitedly alluded to a big secret scoring project he had coming out in early 2020 at a concert he performed in October (before the film had wrapped, isn’t it?) so unless his schedule wasn’t open at that point it may well be that it hasn’t been rushed at all.
He’s not even actually been officially announced even yet, so there’s no reason to think he’s only picking the pen up this week: it’s just when we’re hearing about it.
A cranked out score is hardly a good thing, in my view. I see bad omens on all of this.
As I've said before, there's enough time for them to write a score without rushing. Of all the things to worry about with the music, worrying that they don't have enough time should not be one of them.
Yes, elsewhere someone said Zimmer excitedly alluded to a big secret scoring project he had coming out in early 2020 at a concert he performed in October (before the film had wrapped, isn’t it?) so unless his schedule wasn’t open at that point it may well be that it hasn’t been rushed at all.
He’s not even actually been officially announced even yet, so there’s no reason to think he’s only picking the pen up this week: it’s just when we’re hearing about it.
By the time Dan Romer was rumoured to be out, Zimmer was likely already contacted (and maybe others were too). I believe the standard that people spend on scoring a film is 6 weeks, and the film needs to be edited first. A film score composer would probably be only starting to write at this point. It's also not unheard of for a film composer to be replaced, and plenty of legendary replacement scores have been written in much less time.
There has been a lot of worry from fans about so many things throughout the production of NTTD, but there has rarely been very little reason for this worry. The people who have been hired to score the film (Romer and Zimmer) are the only things that have worried me, based on these people's past works.
I have to say, I love the score for Pirates of The Caribbean. I’m not sure how much is Zimmer and how much is his protege Klaus Badelt, but it’s a rousing and fun score which in many places stands alone from the film, in the same way that other great scores can.
It was so good, John Williams seems to have borrowed the main theme for parts of his Warhorse soundtrack.
Zimmer is going to turn in a terrific score. He's got a lot in common with Barry, relying on simple but strong motifs. The big difference is Zimmer's minimalism -- his Batman scores are particularly brilliant in this regard -- and reliance on synthesizers instead of full orchestras for everything, but even John Barry was moving that direction with his last Bond score, TLD.
And Barry certainly wasn't wholly original. Goldfinger was nicknamed Moonfinger for its similarity to the Mancini song, and his YOLT soundtrack is great, but the title song shares a lot with "Secret Love." There's the while controversy about who created the Bond theme and from where, too. Even so I wouldn't call Barry generic any more than Zimmer -- they have their own styles, both of which are immediately recognizable compared to so much orchestral movie music today that really is interchangable.
Zimmer is going to turn in one of the best Bond soundtracks in years.
As I've said before, there's enough time for them to write a score without rushing. Of all the things to worry about with the music, worrying that they don't have enough time should not be one of them.
Yes, elsewhere someone said Zimmer excitedly alluded to a big secret scoring project he had coming out in early 2020 at a concert he performed in October (before the film had wrapped, isn’t it?) so unless his schedule wasn’t open at that point it may well be that it hasn’t been rushed at all.
He’s not even actually been officially announced even yet, so there’s no reason to think he’s only picking the pen up this week: it’s just when we’re hearing about it.
By the time Dan Romer was rumoured to be out, Zimmer was likely already contacted (and maybe others were too). I believe the standard that people spend on scoring a film is 6 weeks, and the film needs to be edited first. A film score composer would probably be only starting to write at this point. It's also not unheard of for a film composer to be replaced, and plenty of legendary replacement scores have been written in much less time.
There has been a lot of worry from fans about so many things throughout the production of NTTD, but there has rarely been very little reason for this worry. The people who have been hired to score the film (Romer and Zimmer) are the only things that have worried me, based on these people's past works.
I'm no film expert, but wouldn't it be better to have a finished score before the editing is finished? I guess a composer will like it if he can watch the rough edit while composing, but I would think the editors wants to do the fine editing to to the score. The composer has little need to know if a cut is a couple of seconds off, he just needs to know the mood of the scene. The editor needs to know what the melody of the score is so he can edit in the same rythm, such as placing a jump scare at the same time as a heavy drum for example.
Mr MartiniThat nice house in the sky.Posts: 2,699MI6 Agent
I apologize if this is a dumb question, but who wrote the music for the No Time To Die trailer?
Some people would complain even if you hang them with a new rope
I apologize if this is a dumb question, but who wrote the music for the No Time To Die trailer?
My understanding is that third party entities who specialize in trailer music tend to put those together. Hence why the Spectre trailer sampled the OHMSS theme, but that was nowhere to be heard in Newman’s score. Or the choral backing to the Bond theme in the Casino Royale trailer that was never featured in the film.
Yes, elsewhere someone said Zimmer excitedly alluded to a big secret scoring project he had coming out in early 2020 at a concert he performed in October (before the film had wrapped, isn’t it?) so unless his schedule wasn’t open at that point it may well be that it hasn’t been rushed at all.
He’s not even actually been officially announced even yet, so there’s no reason to think he’s only picking the pen up this week: it’s just when we’re hearing about it.
By the time Dan Romer was rumoured to be out, Zimmer was likely already contacted (and maybe others were too). I believe the standard that people spend on scoring a film is 6 weeks, and the film needs to be edited first. A film score composer would probably be only starting to write at this point. It's also not unheard of for a film composer to be replaced, and plenty of legendary replacement scores have been written in much less time.
There has been a lot of worry from fans about so many things throughout the production of NTTD, but there has rarely been very little reason for this worry. The people who have been hired to score the film (Romer and Zimmer) are the only things that have worried me, based on these people's past works.
I'm no film expert, but wouldn't it be better to have a finished score before the editing is finished? I guess a composer will like it if he can watch the rough edit while composing, but I would think the editors wants to do the fine editing to to the score. The composer has little need to know if a cut is a couple of seconds off, he just needs to know the mood of the scene. The editor needs to know what the melody of the score is so he can edit in the same rythm, such as placing a jump scare at the same time as a heavy drum for example.
The composer is expected to follow the edited film. Otherwise they will have no idea as to how long each scene will be and how much music to write. Some composers, like John Williams, score to follow exact moments in the films. He writes he scores to be timed exactly to fit an edited film. The composer will score the jump scare and have a time code for it during the recording so he known when to conduct the orchestra to play it. That's what John Barry did for the scenes in Scaramanga's funhouse. Very often the rhythm you're feeling from a scene is only because the score is creating it.
It's rare that the film is edited to fit the rhythm of a score, but it has happened. John Williams wrote a very complex score to follow the last 15 minutes of E.T., but when recording the score he had a very difficult time with getting all the music perfectly timed. In this rare instance, Spielberg re-edited the film slightly to fit the music that Williams wrote for it because he didn't want Williams to have to change anything about the music. Usually film music isn't so complex that this problem comes up.
There are times when further edits to scenes are made after they have been scored for various reasons that have nothing to do with the music. In these cases the editor has to make cuts to the music, or sometimes will repeat music.
I'm no film expert, but wouldn't it be better to have a finished score before the editing is finished?
I work professionally in music and it’s taken me close to the movie world on quite a few occasions. I've worked on movie soundtracks & scores, including on movies that Zimmer was involved in on a few occasions. I can tell you that the process usually goes along the following lines:
1. The film will be edited more or less to the shape it’s going to end up in and will have a temporary score added to it. This will consist of pieces of music that they’re not necessarily planning to use, but the idea is that they’ll set the tone for how the director envisages a scene. On a non-Bond movie, this could include music from other movies, songs that the musical director likes and thinks fits well and also songs that they may well attempt to use in the final movie (if a reasonable fee can be agreed with the publishers). In the case of Bond, I would imagine they’ll draw heavily on the back catalogue of Bond music available to them to shape how they see envisage the score.
2. This temporary score will be given the composer and he’ll set to work, developing his themes and motifs. The composer will mock up versions of their compositions using sound libraries, synthesisers etc. for each place that it’s been indicated there should be music. Each piece of music is known as a cue. Zimmer has an amazing team of people around him and a truly mind boggling array of samples etc at his disposal. His mock up score will sound pretty frickin' epic before a real orchestra even gets anywhere near it.
3. Whilst this is going on, the editing of the film is being refined. Sometimes dialogue is being rerecorded. Sometimes they’re perfecting the timing of a scene. Sometimes a scene might get axed altogether. At this stage the movie is still being worked on in ‘reels’ - whereby it’s not one cohesive piece. So, if something changes, you get sent an updated ‘reel’ for that 15 - 20 minute section of the movie. Typically, a new reel (or several) turns up every day or 2 over the course of several weeks whilst this process continues.
4. As Zimmer get cues approved for different parts of the movie, they’ll replace the temp score with his mocked up music and the reels will be updated with these. This also helps the editor to refine the picture, now that he knows what the music will sound like. Zimmer will be playing his cues to the producers regularly and they’ll be giving him input on what works and what doesn’t. Having worked with Zimmer up close, this is where his real genius lies and what makes him such a successful movie composer. He can take criticism on the chin, completely scrap something he’s spent a lot of time on and turn up the next day with something that has been completely reworked and wins over everyone in the room.
5. Once the cues have been accepted and the picture gets locked for those scenes, they’ll go and record real musicians playing the orchestral elements of the composition, typically in large studio such as Abbey Road for instance.
6. With all the music having been recorded, the picture having been edited and the dialogue been recorded, they’ll go to a dubbing stage to do the final dub of the movie. This is the point where they decide how loud the dialogue is vs the music, vs the sound effects etc…
I’m not working on NTTD, but this should give a pretty good insight into what kind of thing will be going on at the moment…
Rob
Hola. Somos maestros en año sabático… y nos ganamos la lotería.
Comments
Don't know who did Craig's make-up, lighting, DP, etc for the commercial but he looks like he's back in his 30's.
Yes, the ring is very visible in the second half of the advert. It's going to be interesting whether he takes off the ring when he's 'shooting' scenes, one imagines this is 20 seconds of a much longer 'short film' advert which Heineken has a history of making.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=heineken+short+film+advert
Hearing that Hans Zimmer will be responsible for the next Bond score is the most depressing Bond musical news I've heard since hearing that Thomas Newman would be returning for SPECTRE. I'm not looking forward to it.
I own a few of Zimmer's scores, and I don't think he's appropriate for Bond. Of course I'd be happy to be proven to be wrong!
I like how he manages to actually look quite drunk at the end of the ad!
I completely feel the same way you do. I've only been buying Bond scores and Barry scores for over two decades. I remember when Gladiator came out and a good friend of mine was all over Zimmer's score. I listened to the soundtrack on CD and had no idea what was talking about it. He told me I had to see the movie to appreciate the music. That's what was wrong with the music: it couldn't stand alone. If it can't stand alone it is not good music. It may get by as a film score, but it's inferior music.
Everything John Barry wrote can be fully appreciated without seeing the film. The same goes for any good film composer.
I've listened to countless film scores by composers like Barry, Arnold, Conti, Williams, Goldsmith, Horner, North, Herrman, Giacchino, Desplat and others without ever seeing the films the music was written for. I may be missing some part of the musical experience by not knowing what inspired these composers to write the music, but good music is good music no matter the context. There is music theory to back this up. And a great composer even writes each instrument's part in the orchestra to be a unique, interesting voice.
Maybe I'm too much of a musician, but Zimmer frequently fails the test of what makes a good composer. He sometimes has great ideas, but he's not enough of a composer to be able to turn them into a good piece of music overall.
I think your perspectives are unique because you are both students of music, and I appreciate what you add to this discussion. That said, I come at music from a different perspective. I don’t know a thing about music theory. I base what I like on how it makes me feel. I think I agree, at least in principle, with your friend who said that you need to see the movie to enjoy the music. It’s a lower bar, but that doesn’t make the music bad. By contrast, not only is Newman’s Spectre score miserable to listen to on its own, it actively detracts from my experience watching the film. For me, that’s bad.
I love Barry (I own many of the scores), and I wish they would’ve asked David Arnold, but I think there is a good chance Zimmer will come up with something that, at a minimum, improves upon what Newman did.
I also base music I like on how it makes me feel, but I can use my basic knowledge of music theory to explain why certain music makes me feel a certain way and why Zimmer is a poor choice for Bond. 20 years ago I didn't have the musical education that I would have a few years later, but Zimmer's music both alone and in the context of a film made me feel unsatisfied. Now I have the knowledge to explain why he's almost the opposite of a composer like John Barry.
You can not argue that journey to the line from the thin red line is not emotional with or without the viewing of the movie.
He’s exactly like Barry in the sense that he is a pop musician turned film composer.
I’m not a huge fan but I’ll give him a fair shake. His music in man of steel was also melodic .
You mentioned Horner and what always got to me was he always repeats his self, his score in wrath of khan, aliens, and patriot games have entire sections lifted piece by piece and interchanged.
As for time period, giachinno wrote the score to rogue one in 2 weeks, after Desplats music was deemed unsuitable.
Looks like we are in for another generic action move score.
A cranked out score is hardly a good thing, in my view. I see bad omens on all of this.
I hope he can do something as good as Barry.
It's been taken down
Bond on the Box - Website | Twitter | Facebook | Instagram | LetterBoxd | YouTube
https://www.instagram.com/p/B7EAvACpi7u/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
would be impossible to ignore this man in a bar, what a presence
that look to the side...seems he have a comedy-talent
I'm not happy with Zimmer aswell. Pirates of the Caribbean is based on a amusement park attraction and the music underlines this.
his music always tells the audience what they have to feel, like a instruction for emotions.
Dan Romer was a very interestig choice
As I've said before, there's enough time for them to write a score without rushing. Of all the things to worry about with the music, worrying that they don't have enough time should not be one of them.
Yes, elsewhere someone said Zimmer excitedly alluded to a big secret scoring project he had coming out in early 2020 at a concert he performed in October (before the film had wrapped, isn’t it?) so unless his schedule wasn’t open at that point it may well be that it hasn’t been rushed at all.
He’s not even actually been officially announced even yet, so there’s no reason to think he’s only picking the pen up this week: it’s just when we’re hearing about it.
By the time Dan Romer was rumoured to be out, Zimmer was likely already contacted (and maybe others were too). I believe the standard that people spend on scoring a film is 6 weeks, and the film needs to be edited first. A film score composer would probably be only starting to write at this point. It's also not unheard of for a film composer to be replaced, and plenty of legendary replacement scores have been written in much less time.
There has been a lot of worry from fans about so many things throughout the production of NTTD, but there has rarely been very little reason for this worry. The people who have been hired to score the film (Romer and Zimmer) are the only things that have worried me, based on these people's past works.
Zimmer is going to turn in a terrific score. He's got a lot in common with Barry, relying on simple but strong motifs. The big difference is Zimmer's minimalism -- his Batman scores are particularly brilliant in this regard -- and reliance on synthesizers instead of full orchestras for everything, but even John Barry was moving that direction with his last Bond score, TLD.
And Barry certainly wasn't wholly original. Goldfinger was nicknamed Moonfinger for its similarity to the Mancini song, and his YOLT soundtrack is great, but the title song shares a lot with "Secret Love." There's the while controversy about who created the Bond theme and from where, too. Even so I wouldn't call Barry generic any more than Zimmer -- they have their own styles, both of which are immediately recognizable compared to so much orchestral movie music today that really is interchangable.
Zimmer is going to turn in one of the best Bond soundtracks in years.
I'm no film expert, but wouldn't it be better to have a finished score before the editing is finished? I guess a composer will like it if he can watch the rough edit while composing, but I would think the editors wants to do the fine editing to to the score. The composer has little need to know if a cut is a couple of seconds off, he just needs to know the mood of the scene. The editor needs to know what the melody of the score is so he can edit in the same rythm, such as placing a jump scare at the same time as a heavy drum for example.
My understanding is that third party entities who specialize in trailer music tend to put those together. Hence why the Spectre trailer sampled the OHMSS theme, but that was nowhere to be heard in Newman’s score. Or the choral backing to the Bond theme in the Casino Royale trailer that was never featured in the film.
The composer is expected to follow the edited film. Otherwise they will have no idea as to how long each scene will be and how much music to write. Some composers, like John Williams, score to follow exact moments in the films. He writes he scores to be timed exactly to fit an edited film. The composer will score the jump scare and have a time code for it during the recording so he known when to conduct the orchestra to play it. That's what John Barry did for the scenes in Scaramanga's funhouse. Very often the rhythm you're feeling from a scene is only because the score is creating it.
It's rare that the film is edited to fit the rhythm of a score, but it has happened. John Williams wrote a very complex score to follow the last 15 minutes of E.T., but when recording the score he had a very difficult time with getting all the music perfectly timed. In this rare instance, Spielberg re-edited the film slightly to fit the music that Williams wrote for it because he didn't want Williams to have to change anything about the music. Usually film music isn't so complex that this problem comes up.
There are times when further edits to scenes are made after they have been scored for various reasons that have nothing to do with the music. In these cases the editor has to make cuts to the music, or sometimes will repeat music.
I work professionally in music and it’s taken me close to the movie world on quite a few occasions. I've worked on movie soundtracks & scores, including on movies that Zimmer was involved in on a few occasions. I can tell you that the process usually goes along the following lines:
1. The film will be edited more or less to the shape it’s going to end up in and will have a temporary score added to it. This will consist of pieces of music that they’re not necessarily planning to use, but the idea is that they’ll set the tone for how the director envisages a scene. On a non-Bond movie, this could include music from other movies, songs that the musical director likes and thinks fits well and also songs that they may well attempt to use in the final movie (if a reasonable fee can be agreed with the publishers). In the case of Bond, I would imagine they’ll draw heavily on the back catalogue of Bond music available to them to shape how they see envisage the score.
2. This temporary score will be given the composer and he’ll set to work, developing his themes and motifs. The composer will mock up versions of their compositions using sound libraries, synthesisers etc. for each place that it’s been indicated there should be music. Each piece of music is known as a cue. Zimmer has an amazing team of people around him and a truly mind boggling array of samples etc at his disposal. His mock up score will sound pretty frickin' epic before a real orchestra even gets anywhere near it.
3. Whilst this is going on, the editing of the film is being refined. Sometimes dialogue is being rerecorded. Sometimes they’re perfecting the timing of a scene. Sometimes a scene might get axed altogether. At this stage the movie is still being worked on in ‘reels’ - whereby it’s not one cohesive piece. So, if something changes, you get sent an updated ‘reel’ for that 15 - 20 minute section of the movie. Typically, a new reel (or several) turns up every day or 2 over the course of several weeks whilst this process continues.
4. As Zimmer get cues approved for different parts of the movie, they’ll replace the temp score with his mocked up music and the reels will be updated with these. This also helps the editor to refine the picture, now that he knows what the music will sound like. Zimmer will be playing his cues to the producers regularly and they’ll be giving him input on what works and what doesn’t. Having worked with Zimmer up close, this is where his real genius lies and what makes him such a successful movie composer. He can take criticism on the chin, completely scrap something he’s spent a lot of time on and turn up the next day with something that has been completely reworked and wins over everyone in the room.
5. Once the cues have been accepted and the picture gets locked for those scenes, they’ll go and record real musicians playing the orchestral elements of the composition, typically in large studio such as Abbey Road for instance.
6. With all the music having been recorded, the picture having been edited and the dialogue been recorded, they’ll go to a dubbing stage to do the final dub of the movie. This is the point where they decide how loud the dialogue is vs the music, vs the sound effects etc…
I’m not working on NTTD, but this should give a pretty good insight into what kind of thing will be going on at the moment…
Rob