Thanks, Rob, for that detailed explanation of the process. My knowledge of the film scoring process is a bit older, when technology didn't allow for all these steps in the process. I'd imagine it was a much simpler process for John Barry.
I'm glad to hear that Zimmer takes criticism well, but I imagined he would. As opposed to Eric Serra, who didn't welcome criticism of his score from the rest of the team.
I think one of the few composers who wrote the music before the film was even shot was the great Ennio Morricone. I don't know if this was just for the Sergio Leone "Man With No Name" films, but Morricone would get the script in advance from Leone, write and record music and they would actually play the music as background while they shot scenes (this wasn't a problem because those films were basically shot w/o sound with all the dialogue, sound effects, etc looped in post production....is wasn't uncommon for three actors in one scene speaking their lines in three different languages .........
I think one of the few composers who wrote the music before the film was even shot was the great Ennio Morricone. I don't know if this was just for the Sergio Leone "Man With No Name" films, but Morricone would get the script in advance from Leone, write and record music and they would actually play the music as background while they shot scenes (this wasn't a problem because those films were basically shot w/o sound with all the dialogue, sound effects, etc looped in post production....is wasn't uncommon for three actors in one scene speaking their lines in three different languages .........
Morricone is a very special composer. The Love Theme from Cinema Paradiso is one of the most incredible pieces of music ever written, which I adored long before I ever saw the film.
I know that many composers will write themes and ideas based on the script, but obviously they can't properly score a film until they know what space they have to fill up.
I think the really unique part of what Leone and Morricone were doing is having the music playing while they actually shot the scene. I have actually seen pictures of a record player on location during filming......it wasn't even tape. I'm sure things were actually completed during post production, especially given how tied to the action those scores were. Just between what Barry and Morricone were doing, the 60's were a pretty amazing time for great film scores.
I think the really unique part of what Leone and Morricone were doing is having the music playing while they actually shot the scene. I have actually seen pictures of a record player on location during filming......it wasn't even tape. I'm sure things were actually completed during post production, especially given how tied to the action those scores were. Just between what Barry and Morricone were doing, the 60's were a pretty amazing time for great film scores.
It was a fantastic time for film scores. Jerry Goldsmith and Michel Legrand were doing incredible things as well.
The announcement of Hans Zimmer as composer for NTTD has taken me back to when I first joined AJB in 2004. One of the first topics that I posted on this site was a thread in which I suggested Zimmer as a potential Bond composer - and the resounding response of the AJB members was "No! No! No!" At the time I was quite enamoured of Zimmer's work, but I certainly had little understanding of film music, or what makes Bond music so unique. But over the last 15 years I've become rather jaded in my opinion of Zimmer and modern action film music in general, so that when the announcement of Zimmer's appointment came out my reaction was pretty much the same as Barbel's.
Hearing that Hans Zimmer will be responsible for the next Bond score is the most depressing Bond musical news I've heard since hearing that Thomas Newman would be returning for SPECTRE.
So I await the new Bond score with some apprehension. It's hard to imagine a Zimmer score delivering anything resembling the Bond sound. It seems more likely that he would deconstruct the Bond them somehow and work individual elements of it into the soundscape somehow. As Calvin Dyson suggested in his reaction video on Youtube, perhaps he will use the Bond theme at half speed with a lot of low pitched brass bursts a la Inception.
Whatever happens, it will be a curious experience for us Bond music fans to hear our beloved series enter the world of the highly commercial Zimmer/Remote Control musical landscape.
I think we'll know the runtime by 23 March, which is a likely date for the British Board for Film Classification (BBFC) to publish its rating for NTTD.
Both Spectre and Skyfall saw the BBFC publish its rating, along with the runtime, 10-days before the UK release date.
The announcement of Hans Zimmer as composer for NTTD has taken me back to when I first joined AJB in 2004. One of the first topics that I posted on this site was a thread in which I suggested Zimmer as a potential Bond composer - and the resounding response of the AJB members was "No! No! No!" At the time I was quite enamoured of Zimmer's work, but I certainly had little understanding of film music, or what makes Bond music so unique. But over the last 15 years I've become rather jaded in my opinion of Zimmer and modern action film music in general, so that when the announcement of Zimmer's appointment came out my reaction was pretty much the same as Barbel's.
Hearing that Hans Zimmer will be responsible for the next Bond score is the most depressing Bond musical news I've heard since hearing that Thomas Newman would be returning for SPECTRE.
So I await the new Bond score with some apprehension. It's hard to imagine a Zimmer score delivering anything resembling the Bond sound. It seems more likely that he would deconstruct the Bond them somehow and work individual elements of it into the soundscape somehow. As Calvin Dyson suggested in his reaction video on Youtube, perhaps he will use the Bond theme at half speed with a lot of low pitched brass bursts a la Inception.
Whatever happens, it will be a curious experience for us Bond music fans to hear our beloved series enter the world of the highly commercial Zimmer/Remote Control musical landscape.
Serra and Newman have turned in unusual, middling Bond scores, and the franchise not only survived, but their films were highly successful at the box office. Some fans count them among the best.
Zimmer can outdo both, and he's one of the few composers today's whose work can match or surpass the intensity of what's onscreen. That's what will give his Bond score its strength.
His style is somewhat like jazz in that his minimalism is really about what notes you don't hear, punctuated by what you do.
Consider how his Batman theme relies on only two notes. The same pattern, by the way, I've heard in other music but where it is not given center stage.). Combined with the intense rhythm and percussion, they take on greater resonance.
He's also brilliant at using crescendo, as in Journey to the Line. He's basically taken New Age (and one might argue Pink Floyd) music and put an action spin on it, and he employs the same sustained, sometimes trancelike emotional mood possible.
Supermarine, his action piece from Dunkirk, is a simple yet blisteringly unrelenting bit of incidental music that fits even though it's for a scene set in the 1940s.
Something to remember too is that a lot of moviegoers today watch videogames, whose music is similar.
By the way, Beyonce is hinting she will be doing the song.
By the way, Beyonce is hinting she will be doing the song.
Yes, I saw that. I'm hardly her target market, but in terms of icons she would be the one to go for I reckon.
A bit like Zimmer really: wouldn't be my personal choice but they're the biggest (and perhaps best) at what they do, and hugely respected and credible, so I couldn't fault the choice.
Mr MartiniThat nice house in the sky.Posts: 2,699MI6 Agent
It's 18 years since Beyonce was Foxy Cleopatra and she hasn't really made a mark in anything else since, so people will definately think of Austin Powers if she sings the title song. )
I had to listen to put a ring on it on the school bus for years. The radio played that garbage at nauseum. Foxy is the only noteworthy performance in her career. It looks like we'll be getting 2 cat strangles in a row. And yep, more AP connections will not put fans at ease. This series is on self-parody life support and needs a saving grace.
I really don't think it is going to be Beyonce. This article, an analysis of her career in the 2010s, while favourable, admits that Beyonce's best days are behind her. Though she did win a Grammy last year with her husband Jay Z. https://www.insider.com/beyonce-artist-of-the-decade-2010s-2019-12
I looked at what a Bond theme singer usually is in this post https://www.ajb007.co.uk/post/937246/#p937246
"a typical Bond theme singer is, more likely to be female, a Grammy winner, has very high recent album sales (and streaming these days), and probably going to be American."
Sam Smith wrote and recorded his theme almost a year before the film came out (https://www.songfacts.com/facts/sam-smith/writings-on-the-wall). That may not have happened this time for whomever will sing the theme, due to the directors situation of Boyle quitting etc.
The Grammys this year are on 26 January. Previously I would have said that deciding on the theme singer after the Grammys this close to the release date would be unlikely, but after the bizarre last few years, anything is possible. Go here to read about who has been nominated for the 2020 Grammys https://www.grammy.com/grammys/news/2020-grammy-awards-complete-nominees-list
Ariane Grande, Taylor Swift, Beyonce and Ed Sheeran are all nominated this year.
There have been spoiler claims that
Sting has co-written the theme with an English singer, Jack Savoretti. Sting's wife is a friend of Fukunaga's and Sting's child, Eliot, has a minor role as a Spectre gunman in NTTD, giving credence to the idea that Sting is involved.
I wouldn't mind at all if Beyonce gets to sing the title song. She's a megastar, she has the right kind of voice and the rigth kind of public persona. It's also worth mentioning that her husband Jay Z is a big Bond fan and could probably help motivate her to say yes if she gets the offer.
I wouldn't mind at all if Beyonce gets to sing the title song. She's a megastar, she has the right kind of voice and the rigth kind of public persona. It's also worth mentioning that her husband Jay Z is a big Bond fan and could probably help motivate her to say yes if she gets the offer.
Sassilive.it, which was quite reliable for news about the Matera fliming, has a story today claiming JayZ is already in Italy and that Beyonce is joining him next week for Bond theme video filming in Matera and elsewhere in Italy. I guess we'll know if it's true in a week.
Just put a new video up that some of you might enjoy....Is Hans Zimmer the Right Choice for No Time To Die?
We discuss the choice of Hans Zimmer as No Time To Die's composer and ask if his music is right for Bond. John Williams, from JBR, joins me in exploring Zimmer's body of work, his sound, and even the consideration of David Arnold in the mix!
Been digging deeper into Zimmer's work and IMO, the guy is capable of really bringing it. Crimson Tide, Gladiator, The Rock, Pirates of the Caribbean and Inception really give me hope that Zimmer (and his crew) can really give us a very good, possibly outstanding and memorable Bond score. I'd forgotten just how good those scores were. On the other hand, I think there is a good handful of Zimmer scores that are very generic and have a "phoned in" feel to them. My hunch is we will get the former and not the latter. First, NTTD is not just a tentpole film, but the 25th film in the greatest film franchise of all time that is well known for its musical legacy. Not only were Barry's scores acclaimed, but he also wrote theme songs that were chart hits. The high profile Zimmer also knows that he will get critically lambasted if he delivers anything but a worthy addition to the Bond musical canon. The other thing, probably most important, is Zimmer is probably really stoked for doing Bond. In seeing videos of Zimmer performing his music live, I think he sees himself as a bit of a "rock star" but in a very good way. The guy just exuded a great sense of joy in performing his music. I do recommend looking at Zimmer's live performances because he tends to perform his most melodic and orchestral compositions as opposed to the drone stuff. I really got the sense that he could easily adapt what he does to be mindful of classic Bond especially since you can hear Barry's influence in his music anyway (some of the Inception pieces sound like they could have been written by Barry). IMO, it's gonna be alright folks .
Been digging deeper into Zimmer's work and IMO, the guy is capable of really bringing it. Crimson Tide, Gladiator, The Rock, Pirates of the Caribbean and Inception really give me hope that Zimmer (and his crew) can really give us a very good, possibly outstanding and memorable Bond score. I'd forgotten just how good those scores were. On the other hand, I think there is a good handful of Zimmer scores that are very generic and have a "phoned in" feel to them. My hunch is we will get the former and not the latter. First, NTTD is not just a tentpole film, but the 25th film in the greatest film franchise of all time that is well known for its musical legacy. Not only were Barry's scores acclaimed, but he also wrote theme songs that were chart hits. The high profile Zimmer also knows that he will get critically lambasted if he delivers anything but a worthy addition to the Bond musical canon. The other thing, probably most important, is Zimmer is probably really stoked for doing Bond. In seeing videos of Zimmer performing his music live, I think he sees himself as a bit of a "rock star" but in a very good way. The guy just exuded a great sense of joy in performing his music. I do recommend looking at Zimmer's live performances because he tends to perform his most melodic and orchestral compositions as opposed to the drone stuff. I really got the sense that he could easily adapt what he does to be mindful of classic Bond especially since you can hear Barry's influence in his music anyway (some of the Inception pieces sound like they could have been written by Barry). IMO, it's gonna be alright folks .
Some good points. I'm familiar with Gladiator and Pirates; I really dislike Gladiator, but I think Pirates is okay. I'm going to check out the others you mention because I don't recall them much. Zimmer seems like someone who has the tools at hand to give NTTD whatever the filmmakers ask him to do.
Just put a new video up that some of you might enjoy....Is Hans Zimmer the Right Choice for No Time To Die?
We discuss the choice of Hans Zimmer as No Time To Die's composer and ask if his music is right for Bond. John Williams, from JBR, joins me in exploring Zimmer's body of work, his sound, and even the consideration of David Arnold in the mix!
Your interviewee at 40mins in your chat says he wants to know what Barry means to Zimmer. This post has text from a 2011 interview Zimmer did where he talks about how much of a fan of Barry he is. https://www.ajb007.co.uk/post/967143/#p967143
Zimmer seems like someone who has the tools at hand to give NTTD whatever the filmmakers ask him to do.
I think this is correct. So the question then becomes, what is it that they want? Probably not a radical departure from what we consider classic Bond since one would assume that’s why Romer was fired.
Zimmer seems like someone who has the tools at hand to give NTTD whatever the filmmakers ask him to do.
I think this is correct. So the question then becomes, what is it that they want? Probably not a radical departure from what we consider classic Bond since one would assume that’s why Romer was fired.
I think someone posted recently that Zimmer has been quoted as saying on some productions what he wanted to do was much more melodic in nature but the producers/filmakers wanted something else and he obliged. This could work well IMO if the producers asked for something much more akin to classic Barry Bond and adding in Zimmer's great admiration for Barry I can't see why he wouldn't be more than happy to oblige. It would also be interesting to know if there is actually a theme song in the can (I've seen the Beyonce rumors) if Zimmer will have access to it or if Zimmer is actually involved in some way with the theme artist and the song (as David Arnold was on CR)? I know David Arnold actually co-produced (and might even have a writing credit) on "You Know My Name".
The Beyonce rumors are interesting as while she does get tons of songwriting credits on her own material, there have been a lot of questions (fair or unfair) regarding how much of it is actually her or her army of songwriters and producers....so I could see her working with Zimmer. I'm not really a fan of her music, but she can sure belt out a song and could do justice to good Bond theme.
I had to listen to put a ring on it on the school bus for years. The radio played that garbage at nauseum. Foxy is the only noteworthy performance in her career.
Zimmer seems like someone who has the tools at hand to give NTTD whatever the filmmakers ask him to do.
I think this is correct. So the question then becomes, what is it that they want? Probably not a radical departure from what we consider classic Bond since one would assume that’s why Romer was fired.
I’m thinking they may want something similar to what Newman did since Newman copied Zimmer’s style for his two Bond scores. If they wanted a classic Bond sound they likely would have hired Arnold.
Zimmer seems like someone who has the tools at hand to give NTTD whatever the filmmakers ask him to do.
I think this is correct. So the question then becomes, what is it that they want? Probably not a radical departure from what we consider classic Bond since one would assume that’s why Romer was fired.
I’m thinking they may want something similar to what Newman did since Newman copied Zimmer’s style for his two Bond scores. If they wanted a classic Bond sound they likely would have hired Arnold.
So why didn't they just get Newman again? I think Newman is much more tied to Same Mendes. As far as Newman copying Zimmer...it depends on what Zimmer he was copying. Sounded like the "meh" stuff to me. This is just going to come down to which Zimmer we get. Melodic, less synth dependent Zimmer or electronic dirge Zimmer. Like most things about NTTD, it's interesting but a bit odd to be debating something we haven't seen nor heard yet.....but that's what we do prior to the actual release of a Bond film. We speculate and try to make some sense of it all.
Comments
I'm glad to hear that Zimmer takes criticism well, but I imagined he would. As opposed to Eric Serra, who didn't welcome criticism of his score from the rest of the team.
Morricone is a very special composer. The Love Theme from Cinema Paradiso is one of the most incredible pieces of music ever written, which I adored long before I ever saw the film.
I know that many composers will write themes and ideas based on the script, but obviously they can't properly score a film until they know what space they have to fill up.
It was a fantastic time for film scores. Jerry Goldsmith and Michel Legrand were doing incredible things as well.
So I await the new Bond score with some apprehension. It's hard to imagine a Zimmer score delivering anything resembling the Bond sound. It seems more likely that he would deconstruct the Bond them somehow and work individual elements of it into the soundscape somehow. As Calvin Dyson suggested in his reaction video on Youtube, perhaps he will use the Bond theme at half speed with a lot of low pitched brass bursts a la Inception.
Whatever happens, it will be a curious experience for us Bond music fans to hear our beloved series enter the world of the highly commercial Zimmer/Remote Control musical landscape.
And for the sake of nostalgia I managed to find my original discussion topic on Wayback Machine: https://web.archive.org/web/20050514201346/http://www.ajb007.co.uk/index.php?topic=20709
Both Spectre and Skyfall saw the BBFC publish its rating, along with the runtime, 10-days before the UK release date.
Spectre
26 Oct 2015 release date
16 Oct 2015 BBFC approval publication
https://bbfc.co.uk/releases/spectre-2015
Skyfall
26 Oct 2012 release date
16 Oct 2012 BBFC approval publication
https://bbfc.co.uk/releases/skyfall-2012-2
https://www.instagram.com/p/B7I3fL4jOPU/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
Heh! That's pretty good. I thought they were ripping off that old Brosnan Tuk Tuk ad for a moment!
Zimmer can outdo both, and he's one of the few composers today's whose work can match or surpass the intensity of what's onscreen. That's what will give his Bond score its strength.
His style is somewhat like jazz in that his minimalism is really about what notes you don't hear, punctuated by what you do.
Consider how his Batman theme relies on only two notes. The same pattern, by the way, I've heard in other music but where it is not given center stage.). Combined with the intense rhythm and percussion, they take on greater resonance.
He's also brilliant at using crescendo, as in Journey to the Line. He's basically taken New Age (and one might argue Pink Floyd) music and put an action spin on it, and he employs the same sustained, sometimes trancelike emotional mood possible.
Supermarine, his action piece from Dunkirk, is a simple yet blisteringly unrelenting bit of incidental music that fits even though it's for a scene set in the 1940s.
Something to remember too is that a lot of moviegoers today watch videogames, whose music is similar.
By the way, Beyonce is hinting she will be doing the song.
Yes, I saw that. I'm hardly her target market, but in terms of icons she would be the one to go for I reckon.
A bit like Zimmer really: wouldn't be my personal choice but they're the biggest (and perhaps best) at what they do, and hugely respected and credible, so I couldn't fault the choice.
Foxy Cleopatra? If she is doing the song, I hope people don't connect this movie to Austin Powers like they did Spectre.
IG: @thebondarchives
Check it out, you won’t be disappointed
https://www.insider.com/beyonce-artist-of-the-decade-2010s-2019-12
I looked at what a Bond theme singer usually is in this post
https://www.ajb007.co.uk/post/937246/#p937246
"a typical Bond theme singer is, more likely to be female, a Grammy winner, has very high recent album sales (and streaming these days), and probably going to be American."
I looked at possible theme singer candidates in this post following last year's Grammys.
https://www.ajb007.co.uk/post/939225/#p939225
Sam Smith wrote and recorded his theme almost a year before the film came out (https://www.songfacts.com/facts/sam-smith/writings-on-the-wall). That may not have happened this time for whomever will sing the theme, due to the directors situation of Boyle quitting etc.
The Grammys this year are on 26 January. Previously I would have said that deciding on the theme singer after the Grammys this close to the release date would be unlikely, but after the bizarre last few years, anything is possible. Go here to read about who has been nominated for the 2020 Grammys
https://www.grammy.com/grammys/news/2020-grammy-awards-complete-nominees-list
Ariane Grande, Taylor Swift, Beyonce and Ed Sheeran are all nominated this year.
There have been spoiler claims that
Sassilive.it, which was quite reliable for news about the Matera fliming, has a story today claiming JayZ is already in Italy and that Beyonce is joining him next week for Bond theme video filming in Matera and elsewhere in Italy. I guess we'll know if it's true in a week.
https://www.sassilive.it/cultura-e-spettacoli/musica-cultura-e-spettacoli/beyonce-scelta-per-colonna-sonora-videoclip-film-no-time-to-die-con-james-bond-girato-nei-sassi-di-matera-sopralluogo-del-produttore-jay-z-coppia-in-arrivo-a-matera/
We discuss the choice of Hans Zimmer as No Time To Die's composer and ask if his music is right for Bond. John Williams, from JBR, joins me in exploring Zimmer's body of work, his sound, and even the consideration of David Arnold in the mix!
https://youtu.be/QFExzCvCMmE
Some good points. I'm familiar with Gladiator and Pirates; I really dislike Gladiator, but I think Pirates is okay. I'm going to check out the others you mention because I don't recall them much. Zimmer seems like someone who has the tools at hand to give NTTD whatever the filmmakers ask him to do.
Your interviewee at 40mins in your chat says he wants to know what Barry means to Zimmer. This post has text from a 2011 interview Zimmer did where he talks about how much of a fan of Barry he is.
https://www.ajb007.co.uk/post/967143/#p967143
I think this is correct. So the question then becomes, what is it that they want? Probably not a radical departure from what we consider classic Bond since one would assume that’s why Romer was fired.
I think someone posted recently that Zimmer has been quoted as saying on some productions what he wanted to do was much more melodic in nature but the producers/filmakers wanted something else and he obliged. This could work well IMO if the producers asked for something much more akin to classic Barry Bond and adding in Zimmer's great admiration for Barry I can't see why he wouldn't be more than happy to oblige. It would also be interesting to know if there is actually a theme song in the can (I've seen the Beyonce rumors) if Zimmer will have access to it or if Zimmer is actually involved in some way with the theme artist and the song (as David Arnold was on CR)? I know David Arnold actually co-produced (and might even have a writing credit) on "You Know My Name".
The Beyonce rumors are interesting as while she does get tons of songwriting credits on her own material, there have been a lot of questions (fair or unfair) regarding how much of it is actually her or her army of songwriters and producers....so I could see her working with Zimmer. I'm not really a fan of her music, but she can sure belt out a song and could do justice to good Bond theme.
ok boomer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyonc%C3%A9#Achievements
I’m thinking they may want something similar to what Newman did since Newman copied Zimmer’s style for his two Bond scores. If they wanted a classic Bond sound they likely would have hired Arnold.
So why didn't they just get Newman again? I think Newman is much more tied to Same Mendes. As far as Newman copying Zimmer...it depends on what Zimmer he was copying. Sounded like the "meh" stuff to me. This is just going to come down to which Zimmer we get. Melodic, less synth dependent Zimmer or electronic dirge Zimmer. Like most things about NTTD, it's interesting but a bit odd to be debating something we haven't seen nor heard yet.....but that's what we do prior to the actual release of a Bond film.