Well, I'm no expert, in fact the exact opposite, but I've lost count of the times I've watched this scenario unfold. Penalty shoot out = England out. To be fair the Italian chappy missed the entire goal and not just by hitting the bar, I mean he just missed. I wouldn't have missed that. And I'm old and fat in comparison and my football playing is limited to kicking to my two year old boy and five year old girl. Both of whom are better than Ashley Cole...
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It was more than we deserved...but I disagree with you about Hodgson...it WAS his fault...well, partly...he picked the team and the tactics, no one else did....so he HAS to carry most of the blame...
When I said that it wasn't Hodgson's fault, I intended to say that there isn't a manager in the world who could make us good right now. I agree completely that Hodgson made some chronic selection errors, not least when he chose the penalty takers against Italy. He made some highly curious squad choices and some highly curious starting XI choices, but I remain convinced that no one could turn this pig's ear into a silk purse. The choice of players to select from is just too limited and too stacked with mediocrity to imagine that even a resurrected Ramsey, Busby or Shankly could make us remarkably better unfortunately!
As for Pirlo, he has been my man of the tournament so far. Ronaldo may the goals and the fancy step-overs, but he also has more blatant misses than anyone else. For pure quality, control and professionalism it's Pirlo. If Germany want to beat Italy - and I am very sure that they will beat them - they need to take Pirlo out of the match.
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 26,572Chief of Staff
Of course the Germans have a word for it...they have been playing that way for years, so needed a name for it
'Sissy-football'....sums up the German league beautifully )
Sir Miles - always 20 years behind
In watch-taste as well as in football and like the english team - playing now Cantenaccio
Walls can be very useful !
Remember I said that England should play more like the Germans do...with power and strength...are you saying that your own team is 20 years behind ? :v
YNWA 97
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 26,572Chief of Staff
It was more than we deserved...but I disagree with you about Hodgson...it WAS his fault...well, partly...he picked the team and the tactics, no one else did....so he HAS to carry most of the blame...
When I said that it wasn't Hodgson's fault, I intended to say that there isn't a manager in the world who could make us good right now. I agree completely that Hodgson made some chronic selection errors, not least when he chose the penalty takers against Italy. He made some highly curious squad choices and some highly curious starting XI choices, but I remain convinced that no one could turn this pig's ear into a silk purse. The choice of players to select from is just too limited and too stacked with mediocrity to imagine that even a resurrected Ramsey, Busby or Shankly could make us remarkably better unfortunately!
As for Pirlo, he has been my man of the tournament so far. Ronaldo may the goals and the fancy step-overs, but he also has more blatant misses than anyone else. For pure quality, control and professionalism it's Pirlo. If Germany want to beat Italy - and I am very sure that they will beat them - they need to take Pirlo out of the match.
Really ? I think Redknapp would have done a better job...at least we might have attacked every once in a while...I had more than enough of Hodgson at Liverpool...during his time in charge there he bought the likes of Poulsen & Konchesky, that pretty much tells me all I need to know about his tactics...and he was sacked for poor results...Dalglish took over at Christmas, and the form he produced from the squad would have had Liverpool finishing in the top 4....again that tells me just how negative Hodgson can be...
On the flip side...I quite liked 99% of his squad choices, on the whole I think he got that right...
And this "pig's ear" has some bloody good players....Hart is as good as any keeper in the world....Terry was top class (even Lescott did very well)...Cole is one of the best left backs in the world....Gerrard is feared by most teams...Rooney is hailed the world over too...that's not a bad spine to the team...add Smalling, Walker, Wilshire, Oxlade-Chamberlaine, Wellbeck (another that did himself no harm with his displays) Carroll, Phil Jones, maybe Cleverly and Rodwell...you could even bring back Lampard...and that squad starts to look pretty good and we have options...now we just need the right coach to help them gel...
If it were up to me, I'd ditch any of the current squad that was over 30....harsh, but it needs doing...no European team has ever won the World Cup on South American soil - and England will not buck that trend - so it's time to lay the foundations for France 2016....
Remember I said that England should play more like the Germans do...with power and strength...are you saying that your own team is 20 years behind ? :v
Good ol' Sir Miles,
now comprehension problems?
You mention, that we used to play with walls 20 years ago and it seems, that you're stuck in that past still
And power and strength have been our only assets 20 yrs ago as well.
The present and the future are team spirit, systematic developement of young talents, acting financially balanced for the clubs and concept-coaches. Joachim Löw now set his footprints in the 8th year.
Noone can seriously say, that our boys are playing Cantenaccio recently - but look at the English team against Italy or Chelsea vs. Barcelona and Munich.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
And this "pig's ear" has some bloody good players....Hart is as good as any keeper in the world....Terry was top class (even Lescott did very well)...Cole is one of the best left backs in the world....Gerrard is feared by most teams...Rooney is hailed the world over too...that's not a bad spine to the team...add Smalling, Walker, Wilshire, Oxlade-Chamberlaine, Wellbeck (another that did himself no harm with his displays) Carroll, Phil Jones, maybe Cleverly and Rodwell...you could even bring back Lampard...and that squad starts to look pretty good and we have options...now we just need the right coach to help them gel...
If it were up to me, I'd ditch any of the current squad that was over 30....harsh, but it needs doing...no European team has ever won the World Cup on South American soil - and England will not buck that trend - so it's time to lay the foundations for France 2016....
Hart (easily our best goalkeeper since Shilton), Terry (played some of the best football of his career), Cole, Gerrard (his best-ever peformance in an England shirt) and Rooney are indeed good players, but I don't think any of them would make it into the German or Spanish starting XIs. As for the other young players, only time will tell if they deliver what they promise. Obviously I hope they do, but we've had so many outstanding young players who've never fulfilled their potential in the past that I am cautious.
I do completely agree with your plan for Brazil. I think we have nothing to lose by building for the future and that work should start now. There's no point using anyone who won't be up to the task in 2014. Alas, I would say that the same applies to Hodgson and I would like to see our re-building be under a different manager. Hodgson should have been an interim manager and not a long-term appointment...but that's done now and the FA will not get rid of him unless we fail to qualify for Brazil.
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 26,572Chief of Staff
Remember I said that England should play more like the Germans do...with power and strength...are you saying that your own team is 20 years behind ? :v
Good ol' Sir Miles,
now comprehension problems?
You mention, that we used to play with walls 20 years ago and it seems, that you're stuck in that past still
And power and strength have been our only assets 20 yrs ago as well.
The present and the future are team spirit, systematic developement of young talents, acting financially balanced for the clubs and concept-coaches. Joachim Löw now set his footprints in the 8th year.
Noone can seriously say, that our boys are playing Cantenaccio recently - but look at the English team against Italy or Chelsea vs. Barcelona and Munich.
I don't think ALL English football is like how the national team play...far from it infact...team spirit will only get you so far...you need the players...and Germany has a great crop of young talent to pick from...and that's why I believe that Managers/First team coaches should not be responsible for the academies at their respective clubs...
You really want to mention Chelsea vs Barcelona and vs Munich ????
Can you just remind me which side won those matches again ?
YNWA 97
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 26,572Chief of Staff
Hart (easily our best goalkeeper since Shilton), Terry (played some of the best football of his career), Cole, Gerrard (his best-ever peformance in an England shirt) and Rooney are indeed good players, but I don't think any of them would make it into the German or Spanish starting XIs. As for the other young players, only time will tell if they deliver what they promise. Obviously I hope they do, but we've had so many outstanding young players who've never fulfilled their potential in the past that I am cautious.
I do completely agree with your plan for Brazil. I think we have nothing to lose by building for the future and that work should start now. There's no point using anyone who won't be up to the task in 2014. Alas, I would say that the same applies to Hodgson and I would like to see our re-building be under a different manager. Hodgson should have been an interim manager and not a long-term appointment...but that's done now and the FA will not get rid of him unless we fail to qualify for Brazil.
I'm more than biased when it comes to Gerrard...but I don't think he played well at Euro 2012...and he's played FAR better in an England shirt before...I'm genuinely at a loss at how so many pundits think he played well...
I think Gerrard would make the German team...not the Spain team...and Rooney could make either...the Germans need a good striker and I'm not sure they have one...Spain have several, but don't play with one )
Cole would make the German team, IMO.
I think you are right to be cautious...but it has a lot to do with the coach and the system of play...and Hodgson really isn't up to the task....he was once a front runner for the German national job...only Beckenbauer urged a note of caution against his appointment...and eventually he was passed over for the job...we need to hire Beckenbauer )
If we really want to rebuild then it should be from the bottom up. We need to produce players who are comfortable on the ball and treat it as their friend, not their enemy. We need players who can play with both feet, who would be as comfortable at left back as they would be on the right wing, not like scared rabbits when they are out of position. Less rigidity, more flexibility.
I would like to think this sort of thing is already being encouraged at school boy levels and academies. If so, we will hopefully begin to reap some dividend by the end of this decade. If things carry on as they have been then the quarter finals and possibly the occasional semi final is as far as England are ever likely to get in a major competition.
Moore Not Less 4371 posts (2002 - 2007) Moore Than (2012 - 2016)
If we really want to rebuild then it should be from the bottom up. We need to produce players who are comfortable on the ball and treat it as their friend, not their enemy. We need players who can play with both feet, who would be as comfortable at left back as they would be on the right wing, not like scared rabbits when they are out of position. Less rigidity, more flexibility.
I would like to think this sort of thing is already being encouraged at school boy levels and academies. If so, we will hopefully begin to reap some dividend by the end of this decade. If things carry on as they have been then the quarter finals and possibly the occasional semi final is as far as England are ever likely to get in a major competition.
I agree with everything you say but I just don't see any aspiring Top Four side allowing young English players the time to develop into first team regulars when they can get an outstanding ready-made player from Africa, eastern Europe or even France or Spain. As Sir Miles said, managers aren't given the time to build a winner. They live under the constant threat of the sack if they don't get a Champions League spot every season, or, if already a Top Four side, winning either the Prem or the CL. Unless you are an exceptional talent, the chances of any young English player cracking a Top Four side is very slim.
I may sound very gloomy, but this is how I see things. As long as money is the be-all-and-end-all God of the Premier League, the national team will suffer.
If we really want to rebuild then it should be from the bottom up. We need to produce players who are comfortable on the ball and treat it as their friend, not their enemy. We need players who can play with both feet, who would be as comfortable at left back as they would be on the right wing, not like scared rabbits when they are out of position. Less rigidity, more flexibility.
I would like to think this sort of thing is already being encouraged at school boy levels and academies. If so, we will hopefully begin to reap some dividend by the end of this decade. If things carry on as they have been then the quarter finals and possibly the occasional semi final is as far as England are ever likely to get in a major competition.
I agree with everything you say but I just don't see any aspiring Top Four side allowing young English players the time to develop into first team regulars when they can get an outstanding ready-made player from Africa, eastern Europe or even France or Spain. As Sir Miles said, managers aren't given the time to build a winner. They live under the constant threat of the sack if they don't get a Champions League spot every season, or, if already a Top Four side, winning either the Prem or the CL. Unless you are an exceptional talent, the chances of any young English player cracking a Top Four side is very slim.
I may sound very gloomy, but this is how I see things. As long as money is the be-all-and-end-all God of the Premier League, the national team will suffer.
Your points are valid but I will say this. If the schools and academies are able to turn out young players with the abilities I suggested in sufficient quantity then it surely can only be a good thing for England's future prospects. I strongly suggest this would lead to more English players playing regularly in the Premiership and would increase the chances of young English talent cracking a top four side.
Moore Not Less 4371 posts (2002 - 2007) Moore Than (2012 - 2016)
talking about the Bundesliga, we don't have such a rule for national/non-national players.
But (and this is a good thing imo), we don't have olygarchs who own the clubs and are spending hundreds of millions for new players.
Additionally, all clubs have to do their business seriously - huge deficits or large raising debts are no-gos here in the licensing negotiations.
But we have academies all over the countries and the national FA is very keen to have the correct coaches there.
But all this takes time.
The roots have been set here in 2002 -2004 and the worldcup in Germany 2006 speeded things up dramatically.
Many of our young players have been player escort children in 2006 - amazing how this can motivate kids.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
The Bundesliga model clearly works and IMO should be copied by all Football Associations. The current trend for billions being poured into clubs by sugar daddy owners to attain success is not sustainable and more importantly, not fair. The sooner financial restrictions are imposed the better.
Sadly, the English game is all about ££££s and it needs to change. Personally, I'd love to see some sort of wage cap or at least a universal wage structure.
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Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 26,572Chief of Staff
Your points are valid but I will say this. If the schools and academies are able to turn out young players with the abilities I suggested in sufficient quantity then it surely can only be a good thing for England's future prospects. I strongly suggest this would lead to more English players playing regularly in the Premiership and would increase the chances of young English talent cracking a top four side.
Of course, that is what everybody wants...but it's just not that simple, if it were...it would have been done by now...the biggest problem we have is HOW young players are taught to play the game...we regiment them into playing formations and put too much emphasis on working without the ball....it was only over the last few years that we have stopped making kids play on full size pitches 8-)
Another problem we have is that any good young English players tend to be bought up by the 'big teams' where they then have to sit in the reserve side (or Under 17's)....thus this usually stunts their development...
The loan system should be overhauled too...only players under the age of 24 should be allowed to be sent out on loan...this would stop the richer teams stockpiling huge squads - and keeping hold of players they cannot play...this may help the younger English players into playing on a more regular basis...or you could go down the Spanish route and have the bigger teams play a 'second' team in the lower leagues....just a thought
YNWA 97
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 26,572Chief of Staff
talking about the Bundesliga, we don't have such a rule for national/non-national players.
But (and this is a good thing imo), we don't have olygarchs who own the clubs and are spending hundreds of millions for new players.
Hmmm....I see Bayern Munich spend a fair ammount of money... Gomez £26.5m Ribery £22m Robben £21m Neuer £19.5m
There is NO WAY Bayern can pay those fees and then the HUGE wages without outside money...
Additionally, all clubs have to do their business seriously - huge deficits or large raising debts are no-gos here in the licensing negotiations.
And that is a great thing...the biggest problem we have is there is just SO MUCH money washing around in English football...and it's too easy for these clubs to borrow money on the VAST ammounts given by TV...quite a few clubs have tried it - and when success hasn't come - they suffer and then either go bankrupt or drop down the leagues...this nearly happend to Liverpool under the last administration and Manure are in constant danger if they don't keep winning trophies - although they will always have a buyer lined up for them...
But we have academies all over the countries and the national FA is very keen to have the correct coaches there.
But all this takes time.
The roots have been set here in 2002 -2004 and the worldcup in Germany 2006 speeded things up dramatically.
Many of our young players have been player escort children in 2006 - amazing how this can motivate kids.
This is what we are now trying to do...although we will have only the one FA Academy...I'm sure the German model is based on the French one that was set up by Gerrard Houllier 15-20 years ago...and that continues to produce to this day...
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I watched Spain knock out Portugal on penalties last night, nervy game and I suppose at 0-0 at extra time, in theory no worse than England, it 's just they hoofed it around a bit more and tried to score on the break. I only tuned in for extra time. Ironic that Spain is being slammed for its 'boring' passing, whereas England who can't pass v well, get slammed for parking a bus.
You're not a proud Englishman unless you relish Ronaldo's dejection at the end...
Wouldn't mind seeing Germany go through tonight, just as well considering they probably will.
Hmmm....I see Bayern Munich spend a fair ammount of money... Gomez £26.5m Ribery £22m Robben £21m Neuer £19.5m
There is NO WAY Bayern can pay those fees and then the HUGE wages without outside money...
Believe it or not: Everything spent from a regular budget. No outside money, they even paid for the new stadium.
But Bayern Munich is in a unique position as they finance well since over 30 years - no breaks and they have been very successfully over the last decades. There is no other german club in a similar financial situation like them!
that is a great thing...the biggest problem we have is there is just SO MUCH money washing around in English football...and it's too easy for these clubs to borrow money on the VAST ammounts given by TV...quite a few clubs have tried it - and when success hasn't come - they suffer and then either go bankrupt or drop down the leagues...this nearly happend to Liverpool under the last administration and Manure are in constant danger if they don't keep winning trophies - although they will always have a buyer lined up for them...
If you have a club full with expensive stars, young players will have it more difficult to get a chance. It's that easy....
is what we are now trying to do...although we will have only the one FA Academy...I'm sure the German model is based on the French one that was set up by Gerrard Houllier 15-20 years ago...and that continues to produce to this day...
As far as I know, the system has been invented by the Netherlands (Ajax Amsterdam) and Spain (Barcelona) but Germany optimized it:
There is a rigid concept and playing philosophy for all academies, the coaches all follow one line and the most important factor is the personality.
Look at France or Netherlands: Great football players but a bunch of egomanic morons who don't play well together.
Ask yourself, why Joachim Löw got rid of Oliver Kan, Kurany and Ballack. It was not because of their talent - they did not fit into the personal profile.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
mabe you should educate yourself a bit more about our beautiful country and our football system 8-)
And it looks like you need to educate yourself with the Italian football system ) ) )
Once again the Italians beat the Germans....the Germans have never beaten the Italians in a competative International match...and playing the way they did...they never will ) I was shocked at just how poor the Germans were...they KNEW Pirlo pulled the strings but they obviously decided to ignore him....oh dear !
Back to the drawing board then...they just couldn't have got their tactics more wrong if they tried ! The Italians played a superb defensive game (see...The Wall actually works B-) )....and in reality should have scored at least four or five...that's how poor the Germans were.
Now, Bondtoys...back to our little chat....
Your claim that Bayern spent only money from their regular budget for the players and the stadium is false...a quick look around showed that they sold the naming rights to their (and TSV's) stadium for 30 years to Allianz....that's money obtained outside of their regular budget, ie outside money... And that doesn't even bring in the fact that TSV also had to find half of the outstanding money as well
As for the footballing system...only Ajax in the Netherlands had a system like that, going back over 30 years....Barcelona's is more recent - about the same time as the French....
Kan, Kurany and Ballack all went because they were too old...and Germany had ready-made replacements...
A few Academy's over here have adopted the system of all the teams playing in the same way...which is okay until the manager is sacked/move's on and the style of play changes 8-)
In my opinion, the Italians did not play "the wall" such as we saw it from England or Greece.
Bad, that we did not manage to benefit from plenty of the chances that we have had and against Italy, you must do the goal - particularly when they are 1:0 ahead.
Why did we loose against Italy?
1. We had at least 3 total losses: Schweinsteiger is really out of shape, it seems, that he has mental problems for them moment. Podolski could not do much and Gomez was harmless.
Additionally, Badstuber sucked and Hummels (after playing a terriffic tournament) had 3 bad moments and 2 of them resulted in goals for Italy.
2. We lost against Balotelli! He had a VERY good day and was lucky enough to finish 2 out of 3 chances. Look at the other italian offensives: Totally harmless and it was obvious that most of them where totally flat after 60 minutes.
Pirlo had too much room to unfold his genius.
I'll freely admit it: Italy was better yesterday and deserved the victory! Congratulations to their team!
(and that penalty for Germany was not hand-play btw).
Now as for the name-sponsor for the Munich arena: Sir Miles I knew that you are mind-wise very much in the past - but do you really expect any premier team to live only from ticket charges as all other income is from "outside"? )
Of course, TV money (thankfully from Sky in the UK ), jersey-sponsors and so on are necessary. And Allianz is nothing different than a sponsor on the jersey! That's part of their budget, that money is not from an oligarch who invests 500 moi to 1000 mio of Euros into his team. That is outside money!
Kuranyi is 30 years old presently, he was 26 when he was fired
Ballack is 35 now, he was suspended when he was 33. Pirlo for example is 34 today.
Oliver Kan is 43 today, was suspended when he was 36 but was the top goalkeeper in Munich for 2 more years. So much about him being "too old" and the others.
As for Germany's academy system: As we started with it in the early 2000, the timeline is correct and the role-models have been Ajax and Barcelona - not France.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Spain were the favourites but just seemed to run out of steam. Italy's time had come and they are worthy champions, then again, Spain have had two bites of the cherry so can hardly complain. At least England went out to the Champions!
Spain were the favourites but just seemed to run out of steam. Italy's time had come and they are worthy champions, then again, Spain have had two bites of the cherry so can hardly complain. At least England went out to the Champions!
Nap - I might be very slow this morning as I had an abysmal nights sleep, but am I missing something here?? Having won 4-0, I'm not sure Spain ran out of steam & we also lost to the beaten finalists, rather than the Champions.
Spain were the favourites but just seemed to run out of steam. Italy's time had come and they are worthy champions, then again, Spain have had two bites of the cherry so can hardly complain. At least England went out to the Champions!
What were you drinking last night, Nap? Did it take you to some kind of parallel universe?
Congratulations to Spain on winning Euro 2012, their third major tournament victory in a row. The debate has now begun as to whether they are the best team of all time. The debate will end if they win the World Cup in Brazil in two years time.
Last night they put on a bit of a master class. Italy were a little fatigued but they did not play badly at all. The 4-0 score was somewhat harsh on them as they played the last half hour with ten men.
Moore Not Less 4371 posts (2002 - 2007) Moore Than (2012 - 2016)
hahaha, Nap. The italians where the guys in the blue jerseys who lost big time
During the tournament, it seemsed, that Spain where running out of steam, but definitely not in the final.
The final was a demonstration of Spains power, teamspirit and skills. I am glad that our boys did not meet htem as they would have lost in the same degree :v
Viva Espana!
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Spain were the favourites but just seemed to run out of steam. Italy's time had come and they are worthy champions, then again, Spain have had two bites of the cherry so can hardly complain. At least England went out to the Champions!
Can I have some of what you were drinking? Sounds like great stuff!! -{
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When I said that it wasn't Hodgson's fault, I intended to say that there isn't a manager in the world who could make us good right now. I agree completely that Hodgson made some chronic selection errors, not least when he chose the penalty takers against Italy. He made some highly curious squad choices and some highly curious starting XI choices, but I remain convinced that no one could turn this pig's ear into a silk purse. The choice of players to select from is just too limited and too stacked with mediocrity to imagine that even a resurrected Ramsey, Busby or Shankly could make us remarkably better unfortunately!
As for Pirlo, he has been my man of the tournament so far. Ronaldo may the goals and the fancy step-overs, but he also has more blatant misses than anyone else. For pure quality, control and professionalism it's Pirlo. If Germany want to beat Italy - and I am very sure that they will beat them - they need to take Pirlo out of the match.
Walls can be very useful !
Remember I said that England should play more like the Germans do...with power and strength...are you saying that your own team is 20 years behind ?
Really ? I think Redknapp would have done a better job...at least we might have attacked every once in a while...I had more than enough of Hodgson at Liverpool...during his time in charge there he bought the likes of Poulsen & Konchesky, that pretty much tells me all I need to know about his tactics...and he was sacked for poor results...Dalglish took over at Christmas, and the form he produced from the squad would have had Liverpool finishing in the top 4....again that tells me just how negative Hodgson can be...
On the flip side...I quite liked 99% of his squad choices, on the whole I think he got that right...
And this "pig's ear" has some bloody good players....Hart is as good as any keeper in the world....Terry was top class (even Lescott did very well)...Cole is one of the best left backs in the world....Gerrard is feared by most teams...Rooney is hailed the world over too...that's not a bad spine to the team...add Smalling, Walker, Wilshire, Oxlade-Chamberlaine, Wellbeck (another that did himself no harm with his displays) Carroll, Phil Jones, maybe Cleverly and Rodwell...you could even bring back Lampard...and that squad starts to look pretty good and we have options...now we just need the right coach to help them gel...
If it were up to me, I'd ditch any of the current squad that was over 30....harsh, but it needs doing...no European team has ever won the World Cup on South American soil - and England will not buck that trend - so it's time to lay the foundations for France 2016....
Good ol' Sir Miles,
now comprehension problems?
You mention, that we used to play with walls 20 years ago and it seems, that you're stuck in that past still
And power and strength have been our only assets 20 yrs ago as well.
The present and the future are team spirit, systematic developement of young talents, acting financially balanced for the clubs and concept-coaches. Joachim Löw now set his footprints in the 8th year.
Noone can seriously say, that our boys are playing Cantenaccio recently - but look at the English team against Italy or Chelsea vs. Barcelona and Munich.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Hart (easily our best goalkeeper since Shilton), Terry (played some of the best football of his career), Cole, Gerrard (his best-ever peformance in an England shirt) and Rooney are indeed good players, but I don't think any of them would make it into the German or Spanish starting XIs. As for the other young players, only time will tell if they deliver what they promise. Obviously I hope they do, but we've had so many outstanding young players who've never fulfilled their potential in the past that I am cautious.
I do completely agree with your plan for Brazil. I think we have nothing to lose by building for the future and that work should start now. There's no point using anyone who won't be up to the task in 2014. Alas, I would say that the same applies to Hodgson and I would like to see our re-building be under a different manager. Hodgson should have been an interim manager and not a long-term appointment...but that's done now and the FA will not get rid of him unless we fail to qualify for Brazil.
I don't think ALL English football is like how the national team play...far from it infact...team spirit will only get you so far...you need the players...and Germany has a great crop of young talent to pick from...and that's why I believe that Managers/First team coaches should not be responsible for the academies at their respective clubs...
You really want to mention Chelsea vs Barcelona and vs Munich ????
Can you just remind me which side won those matches again ?
I'm more than biased when it comes to Gerrard...but I don't think he played well at Euro 2012...and he's played FAR better in an England shirt before...I'm genuinely at a loss at how so many pundits think he played well...
I think Gerrard would make the German team...not the Spain team...and Rooney could make either...the Germans need a good striker and I'm not sure they have one...Spain have several, but don't play with one
Cole would make the German team, IMO.
I think you are right to be cautious...but it has a lot to do with the coach and the system of play...and Hodgson really isn't up to the task....he was once a front runner for the German national job...only Beckenbauer urged a note of caution against his appointment...and eventually he was passed over for the job...we need to hire Beckenbauer
I would like to think this sort of thing is already being encouraged at school boy levels and academies. If so, we will hopefully begin to reap some dividend by the end of this decade. If things carry on as they have been then the quarter finals and possibly the occasional semi final is as far as England are ever likely to get in a major competition.
I agree with everything you say but I just don't see any aspiring Top Four side allowing young English players the time to develop into first team regulars when they can get an outstanding ready-made player from Africa, eastern Europe or even France or Spain. As Sir Miles said, managers aren't given the time to build a winner. They live under the constant threat of the sack if they don't get a Champions League spot every season, or, if already a Top Four side, winning either the Prem or the CL. Unless you are an exceptional talent, the chances of any young English player cracking a Top Four side is very slim.
I may sound very gloomy, but this is how I see things. As long as money is the be-all-and-end-all God of the Premier League, the national team will suffer.
Your points are valid but I will say this. If the schools and academies are able to turn out young players with the abilities I suggested in sufficient quantity then it surely can only be a good thing for England's future prospects. I strongly suggest this would lead to more English players playing regularly in the Premiership and would increase the chances of young English talent cracking a top four side.
But (and this is a good thing imo), we don't have olygarchs who own the clubs and are spending hundreds of millions for new players.
Additionally, all clubs have to do their business seriously - huge deficits or large raising debts are no-gos here in the licensing negotiations.
But we have academies all over the countries and the national FA is very keen to have the correct coaches there.
But all this takes time.
The roots have been set here in 2002 -2004 and the worldcup in Germany 2006 speeded things up dramatically.
Many of our young players have been player escort children in 2006 - amazing how this can motivate kids.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Sadly, the English game is all about ££££s and it needs to change. Personally, I'd love to see some sort of wage cap or at least a universal wage structure.
Of course, that is what everybody wants...but it's just not that simple, if it were...it would have been done by now...the biggest problem we have is HOW young players are taught to play the game...we regiment them into playing formations and put too much emphasis on working without the ball....it was only over the last few years that we have stopped making kids play on full size pitches 8-)
Another problem we have is that any good young English players tend to be bought up by the 'big teams' where they then have to sit in the reserve side (or Under 17's)....thus this usually stunts their development...
The loan system should be overhauled too...only players under the age of 24 should be allowed to be sent out on loan...this would stop the richer teams stockpiling huge squads - and keeping hold of players they cannot play...this may help the younger English players into playing on a more regular basis...or you could go down the Spanish route and have the bigger teams play a 'second' team in the lower leagues....just a thought
Hmmm....I see Bayern Munich spend a fair ammount of money...
Gomez £26.5m
Ribery £22m
Robben £21m
Neuer £19.5m
There is NO WAY Bayern can pay those fees and then the HUGE wages without outside money...
And that is a great thing...the biggest problem we have is there is just SO MUCH money washing around in English football...and it's too easy for these clubs to borrow money on the VAST ammounts given by TV...quite a few clubs have tried it - and when success hasn't come - they suffer and then either go bankrupt or drop down the leagues...this nearly happend to Liverpool under the last administration and Manure are in constant danger if they don't keep winning trophies - although they will always have a buyer lined up for them...
This is what we are now trying to do...although we will have only the one FA Academy...I'm sure the German model is based on the French one that was set up by Gerrard Houllier 15-20 years ago...and that continues to produce to this day...
The FULL article.
David Beckham not selected for London 2012 football squad
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18624174
You're not a proud Englishman unless you relish Ronaldo's dejection at the end...
Wouldn't mind seeing Germany go through tonight, just as well considering they probably will.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
mabe you should educate yourself a bit more about our beautiful country and our football system 8-)
Believe it or not: Everything spent from a regular budget. No outside money, they even paid for the new stadium.
But Bayern Munich is in a unique position as they finance well since over 30 years - no breaks and they have been very successfully over the last decades. There is no other german club in a similar financial situation like them!
If you have a club full with expensive stars, young players will have it more difficult to get a chance. It's that easy....
As far as I know, the system has been invented by the Netherlands (Ajax Amsterdam) and Spain (Barcelona) but Germany optimized it:
There is a rigid concept and playing philosophy for all academies, the coaches all follow one line and the most important factor is the personality.
Look at France or Netherlands: Great football players but a bunch of egomanic morons who don't play well together.
Ask yourself, why Joachim Löw got rid of Oliver Kan, Kurany and Ballack. It was not because of their talent - they did not fit into the personal profile.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Roger Moore 1927-2017
And it looks like you need to educate yourself with the Italian football system
Once again the Italians beat the Germans....the Germans have never beaten the Italians in a competative International match...and playing the way they did...they never will
Back to the drawing board then...they just couldn't have got their tactics more wrong if they tried ! The Italians played a superb defensive game (see...The Wall actually works B-) )....and in reality should have scored at least four or five...that's how poor the Germans were.
Now, Bondtoys...back to our little chat....
Your claim that Bayern spent only money from their regular budget for the players and the stadium is false...a quick look around showed that they sold the naming rights to their (and TSV's) stadium for 30 years to Allianz....that's money obtained outside of their regular budget, ie outside money...
As for the footballing system...only Ajax in the Netherlands had a system like that, going back over 30 years....Barcelona's is more recent - about the same time as the French....
Kan, Kurany and Ballack all went because they were too old...and Germany had ready-made replacements...
A few Academy's over here have adopted the system of all the teams playing in the same way...which is okay until the manager is sacked/move's on and the style of play changes 8-)
In my opinion, the Italians did not play "the wall" such as we saw it from England or Greece.
Bad, that we did not manage to benefit from plenty of the chances that we have had and against Italy, you must do the goal - particularly when they are 1:0 ahead.
Why did we loose against Italy?
1. We had at least 3 total losses: Schweinsteiger is really out of shape, it seems, that he has mental problems for them moment. Podolski could not do much and Gomez was harmless.
Additionally, Badstuber sucked and Hummels (after playing a terriffic tournament) had 3 bad moments and 2 of them resulted in goals for Italy.
2. We lost against Balotelli! He had a VERY good day and was lucky enough to finish 2 out of 3 chances. Look at the other italian offensives: Totally harmless and it was obvious that most of them where totally flat after 60 minutes.
Pirlo had too much room to unfold his genius.
I'll freely admit it: Italy was better yesterday and deserved the victory! Congratulations to their team!
(and that penalty for Germany was not hand-play btw).
Now as for the name-sponsor for the Munich arena: Sir Miles I knew that you are mind-wise very much in the past - but do you really expect any premier team to live only from ticket charges as all other income is from "outside"?
Of course, TV money (thankfully from Sky in the UK
Kuranyi is 30 years old presently, he was 26 when he was fired
Ballack is 35 now, he was suspended when he was 33. Pirlo for example is 34 today.
Oliver Kan is 43 today, was suspended when he was 36 but was the top goalkeeper in Munich for 2 more years. So much about him being "too old" and the others.
As for Germany's academy system: As we started with it in the early 2000, the timeline is correct and the role-models have been Ajax and Barcelona - not France.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Nap - I might be very slow this morning as I had an abysmal nights sleep, but am I missing something here?? Having won 4-0, I'm not sure Spain ran out of steam & we also lost to the beaten finalists, rather than the Champions.
What were you drinking last night, Nap? Did it take you to some kind of parallel universe?
Congratulations to Spain on winning Euro 2012, their third major tournament victory in a row. The debate has now begun as to whether they are the best team of all time. The debate will end if they win the World Cup in Brazil in two years time.
Last night they put on a bit of a master class. Italy were a little fatigued but they did not play badly at all. The 4-0 score was somewhat harsh on them as they played the last half hour with ten men.
During the tournament, it seemsed, that Spain where running out of steam, but definitely not in the final.
The final was a demonstration of Spains power, teamspirit and skills. I am glad that our boys did not meet htem as they would have lost in the same degree :v
Viva Espana!
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Can I have some of what you were drinking? Sounds like great stuff!! -{
Shame Balotelli got sent off, but no surprise really.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Besides the booze, how where the chicks? :v
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Oh, you mean the fairer sex. I don't know why you ask, it's not like I've ever shown any interest in sex on this board.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Roger Moore 1927-2017