Wow I disagree. Best television series since Mad Men.
Film: Tomorrow Never Dies | Girl: Teresa di Vicenzo | Villain: Max Zorin | Car: Aston Martin Volante | Novel: You Only Live Twice | Bond: Sir Sean Connery
I thought the Night Manager was very poor and most of the characters miscast. There was nothing I saw that was anywhere close to Bond.
I agree. The first episode was promising but the rest was really boring. I lost interest quickly.
I bet your favourite Bond was Connery too...
Only teasing. I thought it got better as it went on. I really liked the second episode and I loved the way Pine got deeper and deeper. The casting was great and Hugh Laurie made a charismatic yet evil villain, similar too Sanchez in TLD or, to a lesser degree, Savalas's Blofeld.
Debicki played her part as the damaged goods villains moll well, better than some Bond girls.
And TH showed some great intensity when playing up his part in the villainous organisation, or whether spying on them. The final episode showed how canny and brutal he could be.
Still my number one choice for the next Bond.
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,993Quartermasters
I thought the Night Manager was very poor and most of the characters miscast. There was nothing I saw that was anywhere close to Bond.
I agree. The first episode was promising but the rest was really boring. I lost interest quickly.
Finished it last night, and enjoyed it immensely. Cracking good TV, in my opinion.
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I really liked the second episode and I loved the way Pine got deeper and deeper. The casting was great and Hugh Laurie made a charismatic yet evil villain, similar too Sanchez
Interesting how you bring up Sanchez... I felt strong allusions to LTK when watching Pine get deeper into the villain's organisation and make him doubt his side kick. And, well, The Night Manager novel did come only a few years after LTK was released.
Film: Tomorrow Never Dies | Girl: Teresa di Vicenzo | Villain: Max Zorin | Car: Aston Martin Volante | Novel: You Only Live Twice | Bond: Sir Sean Connery
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,993Quartermasters
I really liked the second episode and I loved the way Pine got deeper and deeper. The casting was great and Hugh Laurie made a charismatic yet evil villain, similar too Sanchez
Interesting how you bring up Sanchez... I felt strong allusions to LTK when watching Pine get deeper into the villain's organisation and make him doubt his side kick. And, well, The Night Manager novel did come only a few years after LTK was released.
They both owe a debt to Akira Kurosawa, who really told the story first in Yojimbo. Sergio Leone mined it for his spaghetti westerns as well )
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I thought the Night Manager was very poor and most of the characters miscast. There was nothing I saw that was anywhere close to Bond.
I agree. The first episode was promising but the rest was really boring. I lost interest quickly.
I had the exact opposite reaction. I thought the first episode was boring, lacking in suspense and tension, the Pine/Sophie love story seemed forced (maybe that's what reminded some people of a Bond film), and the characters seemed muddled. It got better after Pine infiltrated Roper's organization and was in danger of being discovered at any moment.
I really liked the second episode and I loved the way Pine got deeper and deeper. The casting was great and Hugh Laurie made a charismatic yet evil villain, similar too Sanchez
Interesting how you bring up Sanchez... I felt strong allusions to LTK when watching Pine get deeper into the villain's organisation and make him doubt his side kick. And, well, The Night Manager novel did come only a few years after LTK was released.
They both owe a debt to Akira Kurosawa, who really told the story first in Yojimbo. Sergio Leone mined it for his spaghetti westerns as well )
Kurosawa stole the idea for Yojimbo from Dashiell Hammett's Red Harvest (and to a lesser degree Hammett's Glass Key).
In the ultimate act of chutzpah, Kurosawa sued Leone for copyright violation and got 15% of Leone's gross for a story that Kurosawa stole.
Interesting how you bring up Sanchez... I felt strong allusions to LTK when watching Pine get deeper into the villain's organisation and make him doubt his side kick. And, well, The Night Manager novel did come only a few years after LTK was released.
They both owe a debt to Akira Kurosawa, who really told the story first in Yojimbo. Sergio Leone mined it for his spaghetti westerns as well )
Kurosawa stole the idea for Yojimbo from Dashiell Hammett's Red Harvest (and to a lesser degree Hammett's Glass Key).
In the ultimate act of chutzpah, Kurosawa sued Leone for copyright violation and got 15% of Leone's gross for a story that Kurosawa stole.
Touche! ) There really is nothing new under the sun. It's all about knowing who to steal from: the best B-)
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I really liked the second episode and I loved the way Pine got deeper and deeper. The casting was great and Hugh Laurie made a charismatic yet evil villain, similar too Sanchez
Interesting how you bring up Sanchez... I felt strong allusions to LTK when watching Pine get deeper into the villain's organisation and make him doubt his side kick. And, well, The Night Manager novel did come only a few years after LTK was released.
It's very nearly the exact plot of the 1987 TV series Wiseguy. Agent gets a criminal record to establish his cover, works his way into the villain's inner sanctum, falls for his woman. Has to deal with a second-in-command who suspects him. (Nine years later he 1996 Wiseguy reunion movie went ahead and stole the plot back from LeCarre, having the protagonist pose as kitchen help and foiling a staged attempt to kidnap the villain's child.)
I thought The Night Manager was fantastic. A bit dry for all the Bond comparisons to have too much merit, though.
With regards to the Night Manager, in the cinematic Bond universe, I don't think MI6 would have wasted a "00" much less James Bond on a mere illegal arms dealer, especially in light of the fact that Bond could have been Id'ed pretty quickly by the other British Intel people who were in league with the arm's dealer. If the arm's dealer had his hands on some nukes or other doomsday weapon that could be a different story (actually it would be Thunderball -{ ).
As far as Bond is concerned I'm starting to think that a really long gap and a rethink would not be such a terrible idea. Talking to another particularly keen Bond fan recently about Night Manager/Hiddleston he asked " do we really need another Bond Film? Haven't they just run their course and run out of steam and are increasingly pale retreads? " once I recovered my composure I could see that he may have had a point. Spectre offered nothing to me except a too long and slightly dull 2 and a bit hours. If a wait meant more care and consideration I could be all for it. From a creative standpoint maybe it's like Craig and is 'done' I wonder if this is playing into his thinking, that from here on in its diminishing returns so he's off. Food for thought?
Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
The first three Brosnan Bond films and Skyfall have shown how/why Bond can still be around in the 21st century. After 8 films post Cold War, I'll be damned if they think of giving up on Bond when there are even more opportunities to pit Bond up against different kinds of villains and threats.
Film: Tomorrow Never Dies | Girl: Teresa di Vicenzo | Villain: Max Zorin | Car: Aston Martin Volante | Novel: You Only Live Twice | Bond: Sir Sean Connery
Obviously, the Bond movies still make money. Spectre made $880k worldwide but cost a fortune to make. This excludes the tax breaks that Spectre got filming in Mexico.
I want another Bond. But only if the movie is a Bond movie, not a Batman, Bourne, or Mission Impossible rip-off. The people making the Bond movie must insist on a return to the true Bond and it must insist on a creative, not corporate, approach.
"And if I told you that I'm from the Ministry of Defence?" James Bond - The Property of a Lady
"do we really need another Bond Film?" Yes, clearly a big Bond fan
Once again, I'll point out their massive success at the box office, your friend may
Be tired of Bond, the public clearly isn't. -{
To be fair he is a fan, as am I, but not a rabid one like us at AJB more of an enthusiastic Sunday player. He also pointed out that of course we will get more as they are so successful financially. I think his view was not about 'bums on seats' but quality in a wider sense. I think an argument based exclusively on 'look how much money they make' is specious and a bit defensive and if I may say so a bit below your usual high standards and wit :007)
Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
BIG TAMWrexham, North Wales, UK.Posts: 773MI6 Agent
To misquote Samuel Johnson: "When a man is tired of Bond, he is tired of life."
I love Bond in all his forms & can't imagine a world in which I'm not entertained by his cinematic exploits. Long may he reign.
Oh, you've cross the line there Zaphod99, if you were twenty or thirty years older, and
needing a stick to walk. there'd be a fight on, )
Given the standard of talent they use on the Bonds, I've always found them to a very high
Quality product. CR got fantastic reviews and several industry awards , the cinematography
in spectre was outstanding ( perhaps only my opinion, but it's all I've got) .
My only slight gripe, is the standard of the scripts of the last two. Nothing major, I just wish
they'd do it a bit better.
Sadly defending Bond is a gut reaction. Probably the same with chaps who follow a beloved
football team or chess champion
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
Oh, you've cross the line there Zaphod99, if you were twenty or thirty years older, and
needing a stick to walk. there'd be a fight on, )
Given the standard of talent they use on the Bonds, I've always found them to a very high
Quality product. CR got fantastic reviews and several industry awards , the cinematography
in spectre was outstanding ( perhaps only my opinion, but it's all I've got) .
My only slight gripe, is the standard of the scripts of the last two. Nothing major, I just wish
they'd do it a bit better.
Sadly defending Bond is a gut reaction. Probably the same with chaps who follow a beloved
football team or chess champion
Understood. BTW I only occasionally use my stick to walk with
Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
EON doesn't have time to sit around and wait for inspiration to strike. Under current law, the Bond copyright will expire in all countries except the US in 2034 (70 years from Fleming's death). It's already expired in a number of countries.
At that point the EON monopoly on cinematic Bond will be virtually gone. Even if it were to make films at the current rate, you might be looking at only five or six more films. It's going to be harder and harder to get a distributor the longer they wait.
They can't crank these things out every year. It's not 1963 anymore. The public domain thing means little, except for an online proliferation of fan films. No one in this day and age is going to sink 100 million into a competing film that's missing all the traditional trimmings.
I may be totally wrong here but I think eon could take a lesson from Marvel. In that they
Seem to plan years ahead with their films and even have to plan them fitting Into the
Timeline of other films.
It can't come as a surprise to eon that after one film another is expected ? So why not
Have an arch of stories almost ready to go ( don't have to be connected stories ) so they
Have an idea of the direction of the series, and can plan ahead.
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
This is a very interesting discussion and one that I have had with myself (because no one else listens)
Do we need another Bond film? Hmmm, maybe after Spectre things have lost a bit of steam. But, bring in a new Bond, with a slightly new formula e.g. more espionage, fewer gadgets, and Bond is up and running again. So, do we need a new Bond? More than ever.
TP's idea of the Marvel helix of films sounds good but... have you ever tried to figure out what film goes where???? Now why not have a three or four film story arc, similar to Nolan's amazing Dark Knight trilogy, and away you go!
That way, you breathe new life into the franchise and you maintain people's interest all the way. And with a multi-film arc, the writers have to take note of continuity so that bloody DB5 debate never has to happen ever again!!!!!
BIG TAMWrexham, North Wales, UK.Posts: 773MI6 Agent
I don't care how EON tamper with things to breath life into the series. I care not one jot about lack of plot logic, time frames, is it the same bloke, etc, etc. For me these films are about moments. They're part of my cinematic DNA - more so now than they've ever been. If you get rid of Bond you may as well cancel Christmas as far as I'm concerned.
I don't neccesarrily think EON and MGM were thinking in those terms with SPECTRE. The film may not have been the critical or Box Office success of Skyfall but it was still a huge hit. IMO, EON, MGM and whoever comes onboard as distributor would probably be very happy to carry on with one or two more films with Craig and finish the SPECTRE/Blofeld saga. With a new actor as Bond (and a new director) things will probably be tweeked a bit but nothing too extreme.
However much I like DC in the role and in my oppinion he has yet to be given a truely great Bond Film, EON need a change going forward so they can try and stop mimicing the popular movies of the moment. CR = gritty origin story ala Batman Begins, QoS using large swathes of Bourne's visual style, SF (in my oppinion the most indervidual, if not the best) still borrowing character traits for Silva from Ledger's Joker and Hiddlestons Loki. (This writer's oppinion) and finally SP attempting to retroactively create a Marvel style multi movie through narrative ans borrowing large plot points from Captain America: The Winter Soldier.
Bond movies used to be the thing that was leading the way, the type of movie to be copied, not jumping on the last passing band wagon. Bond movies need to find what it is to be a 'Bond Movie' again. A new Actor and a new style might be the thing the Doctor ordered.
Bond movies used to be the thing that was leading the way, the type of movie to be copied, not jumping on the last passing band wagon.
This is nothing new. Bond has not been a leader since the 1960s. The Bond films have been following film trends significantly since the 1970s, such as blaxploitation in LALD, martial arts in TMWTGG and outer space in MR. Though in the 1970s Bond was the leader in stunts in film. Mission: Impossible is now the leader for stunts.
Comments
This doesn't seem to be the common view of The Night Manager.
Probably because of the TH/Bond link...I don't the majority of people are THAT stupid to believe it is...or perhaps I'm wrong and they are ?
I agree. The first episode was promising but the rest was really boring. I lost interest quickly.
I bet your favourite Bond was Connery too...
Only teasing. I thought it got better as it went on. I really liked the second episode and I loved the way Pine got deeper and deeper. The casting was great and Hugh Laurie made a charismatic yet evil villain, similar too Sanchez in TLD or, to a lesser degree, Savalas's Blofeld.
Debicki played her part as the damaged goods villains moll well, better than some Bond girls.
And TH showed some great intensity when playing up his part in the villainous organisation, or whether spying on them. The final episode showed how canny and brutal he could be.
Still my number one choice for the next Bond.
Finished it last night, and enjoyed it immensely. Cracking good TV, in my opinion.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Interesting how you bring up Sanchez... I felt strong allusions to LTK when watching Pine get deeper into the villain's organisation and make him doubt his side kick. And, well, The Night Manager novel did come only a few years after LTK was released.
They both owe a debt to Akira Kurosawa, who really told the story first in Yojimbo. Sergio Leone mined it for his spaghetti westerns as well
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I had the exact opposite reaction. I thought the first episode was boring, lacking in suspense and tension, the Pine/Sophie love story seemed forced (maybe that's what reminded some people of a Bond film), and the characters seemed muddled. It got better after Pine infiltrated Roper's organization and was in danger of being discovered at any moment.
Kurosawa stole the idea for Yojimbo from Dashiell Hammett's Red Harvest (and to a lesser degree Hammett's Glass Key).
In the ultimate act of chutzpah, Kurosawa sued Leone for copyright violation and got 15% of Leone's gross for a story that Kurosawa stole.
http://nightflight.com/samurai-cowboys-and-gangsters-the-hidden-violent-movie-history-of-dashiell-hammetts-red-harvest/
Touche!
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
It's very nearly the exact plot of the 1987 TV series Wiseguy. Agent gets a criminal record to establish his cover, works his way into the villain's inner sanctum, falls for his woman. Has to deal with a second-in-command who suspects him. (Nine years later he 1996 Wiseguy reunion movie went ahead and stole the plot back from LeCarre, having the protagonist pose as kitchen help and foiling a staged attempt to kidnap the villain's child.)
I thought The Night Manager was fantastic. A bit dry for all the Bond comparisons to have too much merit, though.
Once again, I'll point out their massive success at the box office, your friend may
Be tired of Bond, the public clearly isn't. -{
I want another Bond. But only if the movie is a Bond movie, not a Batman, Bourne, or Mission Impossible rip-off. The people making the Bond movie must insist on a return to the true Bond and it must insist on a creative, not corporate, approach.
To be fair he is a fan, as am I, but not a rabid one like us at AJB more of an enthusiastic Sunday player. He also pointed out that of course we will get more as they are so successful financially. I think his view was not about 'bums on seats' but quality in a wider sense. I think an argument based exclusively on 'look how much money they make' is specious and a bit defensive and if I may say so a bit below your usual high standards and wit :007)
I love Bond in all his forms & can't imagine a world in which I'm not entertained by his cinematic exploits. Long may he reign.
needing a stick to walk. there'd be a fight on,
Given the standard of talent they use on the Bonds, I've always found them to a very high
Quality product. CR got fantastic reviews and several industry awards , the cinematography
in spectre was outstanding ( perhaps only my opinion, but it's all I've got) .
My only slight gripe, is the standard of the scripts of the last two. Nothing major, I just wish
they'd do it a bit better.
Sadly defending Bond is a gut reaction. Probably the same with chaps who follow a beloved
football team or chess champion
Understood. BTW I only occasionally use my stick to walk with
At that point the EON monopoly on cinematic Bond will be virtually gone. Even if it were to make films at the current rate, you might be looking at only five or six more films. It's going to be harder and harder to get a distributor the longer they wait.
A four year wait got us Skyfall.
If you prefer, a six year wait got us Goldeneye.
They can't crank these things out every year. It's not 1963 anymore. The public domain thing means little, except for an online proliferation of fan films. No one in this day and age is going to sink 100 million into a competing film that's missing all the traditional trimmings.
Seem to plan years ahead with their films and even have to plan them fitting Into the
Timeline of other films.
It can't come as a surprise to eon that after one film another is expected ? So why not
Have an arch of stories almost ready to go ( don't have to be connected stories ) so they
Have an idea of the direction of the series, and can plan ahead.
Do we need another Bond film? Hmmm, maybe after Spectre things have lost a bit of steam. But, bring in a new Bond, with a slightly new formula e.g. more espionage, fewer gadgets, and Bond is up and running again. So, do we need a new Bond? More than ever.
TP's idea of the Marvel helix of films sounds good but... have you ever tried to figure out what film goes where???? Now why not have a three or four film story arc, similar to Nolan's amazing Dark Knight trilogy, and away you go!
That way, you breathe new life into the franchise and you maintain people's interest all the way. And with a multi-film arc, the writers have to take note of continuity so that bloody DB5 debate never has to happen ever again!!!!!
Bond movies used to be the thing that was leading the way, the type of movie to be copied, not jumping on the last passing band wagon. Bond movies need to find what it is to be a 'Bond Movie' again. A new Actor and a new style might be the thing the Doctor ordered.
This is nothing new. Bond has not been a leader since the 1960s. The Bond films have been following film trends significantly since the 1970s, such as blaxploitation in LALD, martial arts in TMWTGG and outer space in MR. Though in the 1970s Bond was the leader in stunts in film. Mission: Impossible is now the leader for stunts.
But I still agree with your post. Welcome!