If you are still serving in the current climate I would consider personal OPSEC even on a friendly community site like this. It don’t take much effort these days to trace someone on the web if you have the inclination and the right kit
Just a friendly reminder - each has to make his own assessment, naturally.
Cheers :007)
My name is Bond, Basildon Bond - I have letters after my name!
It's naturally up to you if you want to answer, but this is new here in AJB007. I understand if you can't say certain things. But I really hope there is no danger in saying if you were, say..... in the infantry or artillery, a corporal or a captain?
Sadly given the times we live in, I can see Bond44's point. I don't think anyone on AJB is dangerous, apart from the
Obsessive Collectors on the memorabilia threads ! but always best to be safe.
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
It's naturally up to you if you want to answer, but this is new here in AJB007. I understand if you can't say certain things. But I really hope there is no danger in saying if you were, say..... in the infantry or artillery, a corporal or a captain?
Agreed, logistics for me reaching the dizzy heights of Lance Corporal (generally accepted to be the hardest working rank in the army - although it may be generally accepted by Lance Corporals :-) )
Sadly given the times we live in, I can see Bond44's point. I don't think anyone on AJB is dangerous, apart from the
Obsessive Collectors on the memorabilia threads ! but always best to be safe.
PERSEC should be in every ones mind when posting just about anything on an open forum; that goes with any information about valuable possessions, occupation, when you are going to be absent form home, relatives, people you know, hobbies, etc. not just with info on military service.
You'll never know who's lurking in the shadows interwebs collecting scraps of info with the intent of targeting. :v
I joined the British army in 1945,as a regular soldier.Having gone through the initial procedure,about June of that year,the moment of truth came one Saturday morning when I attended at the city library to be inducted.A last chance to back out,then a swearing in with hand on the bible,and a presentation of one shilling.The kings shilling as it w as called(A king occupied the throne,otherwise it would ha ve been the Queens shilling ).,but special to those who received it..An ordinary coin,taken from the pocket of a Grenadier Guards Sergeant Major.Part of my first pay,deducted when I was called to the colours in September of that year.In a time when there was mass conscription,the simple question,'Did you take the Kings shilling' ,sorted out who was a conscript and who was a regular.I w onder if that tradition of receiving a shilling,still exists.
A valuable lesson I learned in the army.If you committed an offence against military law,one had to appear before the company commander.It was usual to plead guilty,no excuse,but one particular officer would not accept this.He would reply,'I am not looking for excuses,I want to know the reasons". We can apply that to almost everything.There is a reason for what we say and do.
I joined the British army in 1945,as a regular soldier.Having gone through the initial procedure,about June of that year,the moment of truth came one Saturday morning when I attended at the city library to be inducted.A last chance to back out,then a swearing in with hand on the bible,and a presentation of one shilling.The kings shilling as it w as called(A king occupied the throne,otherwise it would ha ve been the Queens shilling ).,but special to those who received it..An ordinary coin,taken from the pocket of a Grenadier Guards Sergeant Major.Part of my first pay,deducted when I was called to the colours in September of that year.In a time when there was mass conscription,the simple question,'Did you take the Kings shilling' ,sorted out who was a conscript and who was a regular.I w onder if that tradition of receiving a shilling,still exists.
A valuable lesson I learned in the army.If you committed an offence against military law,one had to appear before the company commander.It was usual to plead guilty,no excuse,but one particular officer would not accept this.He would reply,'I am not looking for excuses,I want to know the reasons". We can apply that to almost everything.There is a reason for what we say and do.
Respect - I think it’s safe to say things have moved on a little since in all areas though we still have rectangular mess tins! As a Coy Comd you are more likely to be extracting your troops from the local constabulary free Friday or Saturday overnight accommodation. Then handing them over to the Sgt Maj for a bit of a reminder of military life is all about (I guess somethings never change).
In days of old that chat with the Sgt Maj normally involved a chat behind the barrack block and one question ‘Do you want my punishment or go up in front of the OC’, the former normally ending up with said miscrent getting up off the floor (it used to be called deterence) . But that is long gone now and there are other ways to inform troops of the error of their ways. (Like removing their Xbox)
Cheers :007)
P.S with the advent of plastic few of the current generation would know what 5 pence was let alone a shilling. That tradition long since past but they all still swear the oath to the Queen.
My name is Bond, Basildon Bond - I have letters after my name!
Yes,I would imagine most things have changed,quite a lot.As I have been resident in Australia for over 50 years,my only contact with ex comrades have been on occasional visits back to UK,the last in 1999,so am really out of date.Luckily,although I am 90 years of age,my memory is quite good, but few mates from my time would be left.
What of military humour? Humour! Well here is a little story,Quite true I assure you.
The year 1947.My company was stationed in Hamilton,Bermuda.There was also a training camp at Warwick,and our training ground w as the foreshore extending from Jobsons Cove as far as,and including ,Horseshoe Bay.I am sure some posters will know where I describe.It was a time when the platoon ,of which I was a member,was there for training.
One night a dog crawled in to camp,and was found in the morning.It appeared old, was in very bad shape,covered in sores,and obviously on the brink of dying.It had trouble eating and drinking.So the humane thing was to kill it.There ws some objection to this.
What grounds did we have for killing it.The platoon sergeant suggested we court martial the dog on the grounds it was illegally on Crown land,and was a spy.If found guilty it would be shot,if innocent left to die normally.The Lieutenant in charge agreed.So a court martial was held,and a guilty verdict returned.Sentence,death by firing squad.
So the dog was taken to the foreshore,tied by a piece of rope to a wooden stake,and a grave dug.Then the firing squad was assembled,
and rifles loaded with one round each.Then someone spoiled it.The commands ready,take aim were called,but before fire could be utterd,someone fired,and the rest of us joined in.No one owned up to firing the first shot,but really who cared.
So somewhere about 150 yards from Jobsons Cove,in the middle of the foreshore,if someone cared to dig they might find a dog;s skeleton,a wooden stake,a piece of rope,and some .303 bullets.
Things move on it’s called evolution I guess, but when a modern soldier talks to an old soldier they strangely have more in common than they realise. Stories of personal challenges, hardship, leaders and food often come up on both sides. Each generation is a product of the last, and whilst tradition sometimes has to give way to finance or common sense many seek to uphold in memory of our fore fathers - it’s what makes military service unique.
My above post was in no way derogatory of the current generation, having seen them step up on operations I am certain they are equal to those of previous generations. What has happened is the raw product has changed because society has changed. We have all become more risk adverse and I would say leisure/ comfort focused.
I think of my own youth, as a lad I was out at sun rise and back many times after sunset (to a clip round the ear as a deterrent). I would be playing war around local woods, Forrest’s or local derelict buildings with my mates having watched an old war film or two (Longest Day or A Bridge too Far). At Christmas I would sneak down stairs and I would listen at the door to my grand parents talking about the war years my grandad was in the Home Guard (reserved occupation), but his brothers Parachute Regiment (Arnhem), Commandos (Norway) and Royal Engineers (D Day). Strangely my grandfather came closest to death when a grenade practice went wrong, or so he would say. I would listen in awe as the beer flowed and the stories of daring do shared (once again - it was an annual event). But they never spoke of it when the family was around it was like a club. I always wondered why.
Now with my own experiences I get it, they are personal and few would truly understand and many would stand in judgement though they were never there. Sometimes you have done things out of necessity that even your nearest or dearest would struggle to reconcile, so it’s easier to say nothing (ignorance is bliss as they say).
But then I look at the current generation (probably like my grandad did at me) and my own children. My son is bussed everywhere by ‘parents cabs’ for his own safety (sign of the times) and the war generation have sadly long since passed. The thought of him playing in a derelict house or doing anything remotely dangerous would send my wife appaplectic (oh how things have changed). He knows of my military service but not what I had done or do. He spends more time in trainers than leather shoes, plays games and watches TV more than going out side. He has never really camped under canvas because he did it once was a bit cold and so he prefers his bed. But he can pretty much pick up any technical device and be working it in seconds (to my annoyance). His saving grace is he plays football and so gets many of the soft skills I got through military service through team sports and I am fine with that (my wife and I had a pact I would never promote military service with my children at all). Occasionally he will watch something Military on TV and say have you done that, he gets a wry smile in response if I have. He cares more about the world than I ever did (I was more could not care less) and I would say is much more ‘informed’ than I ever was at his age.
So take him and his generation put them in military training it will naturally be tougher than for previous generations, but with time, encouragement and training they get there as the last decades have proven (a journey of personal discovery that they can do so much more than they thought - because these days we place more restrictions on our kids than freedoms to ‘protect’ them).
Many in government now feel Conflicts can be fought and won by drone warfare but reality is you will always need to put troops on the ground to mop up or dominate it once taken. So you need people in your armed forces to do the job. In future whatever happens the cause must be justified and supported by the populous to be anywhere near successful (we have seen what happens if not).
As for discipline is was tougher back in the day, but some took it too far, made it personal or crossed the line and the military had to evolve out of necessity and it was the right thing to do. I was once ‘banged out’ by my Pl Sgt for missing first parade after a night out. I knew I had broken the rules and with a sore head already the addition of a fat lip was a good deterrent not to break the rules next time. It wasn’t bullying it was a lesson in life - a short sharp shock that I never forgot and taugh me much. And the same guy who delivered it was the best man at my wedding some years later. He admitted the same had happened to him some years before, so it was kind of a passage of rights. But it would not happen today, you would get some sort of ‘Administrative Action’ aka a different type of slap on the wrists - moving with the times.
Like I said it’s called evolution, nothing stays the same things change but strangely in military service there is always a thread that binds us all serving or ex serving - our experiences and you can never take that away.
Just some random thoughts on a Sunday morning.
Cheers :007)
My name is Bond, Basildon Bond - I have letters after my name!
As far as I know you are the oldest member here in AJB007. -{
Nice, we need a variety of people here and all your experiance is an asset.
I think conscription and the attitudes to it has changed since I did my national service back in 1991-92. Back then the cold war was not quite over and all boys exept the completely medically unfit and conscientious objectors had to serve. The family od one of my class mates conscientious objectors and one or two of his brothers had to go to jail for it.
There were also stories of people going as far as self-mutilation to avoid military service, but I don't know how old thoise stories were.
Generally military service was seen as something boys had to go through. It was seen as a burden by many, but not doing it was seen as more or less shameful.
If you had some physical problems such as bad hearing, but not enough to be rejected you were a "delvis" ("partial") and could do most things, but not all. Personally I had a back injury, but I was only exempt from some of the heaviest lifting (I was a combat engineer).
Now we have a ridiculously small army and the military needs only a fractions of the 18 year-olds. Norway has female conscription now too. As a result only the most motivated and fit are exepted, and no-one is drafted against their will.
What raid in Norway did your grandad's brother take part in, Bond44? Måløy, Vågsøy, Lofoten, Spitzbergen or one of the smaller raids?
As far as I know you are the oldest member here in AJB007. -{
Nice, we need a variety of people here and all your experiance is an asset.
I think conscription and the attitudes to it has changed since I did my national service back in 1991-92. Back then the cold war was not quite over and all boys exept the completely medically unfit and conscientious objectors had to serve. The family od one of my class mates conscientious objectors and one or two of his brothers had to go to jail for it.
There were also stories of people going as far as self-mutilation to avoid military service, but I don't know how old thoise stories were.
Generally military service was seen as something boys had to go through. It was seen as a burden by many, but not doing it was seen as more or less shameful.
If you had some physical problems such as bad hearing, but not enough to be rejected you were a "delvis" ("partial") and could do most things, but not all. Personally I had a back injury, but I was only exempt from some of the heaviest lifting (I was a combat engineer).
Now we have a ridiculously small army and the military needs only a fractions of the 18 year-olds. Norway has female conscription now too. As a result only the most motivated and fit are exepted, and no-one is drafted against their will.
What raid in Norway did your grandad's brother take part in, Bond44? Måløy, Vågsøy, Lofoten, Spitzbergen or one of the smaller raids?
N24 he join 12 Commando in 41 when they moved to Inverary, he did several raids into Norway and was part of Op Anklet a diversionary attack for on Vågsøy and Måløy I believe. His unit disbanded in 43 and he spent some time in North Africa and then moved to the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders for the latter part of the war.
I remember him saying his wife wanted him to leave the infantry because it was dangerous so he joined the Commandos and spent months raiding Norway and even a stint sitting under the German Army HQ somewhere! (always made him laugh she thought Commandos didn’t go anywhere if only she knew)
Cheers :007)
My name is Bond, Basildon Bond - I have letters after my name!
Didn't realise I may be the oldest person posting.but thanks for the compliments.Did my first tandem parachute jump on 18 ,November
last year,two days after my 90th birthday.A birthday present.Anyone wishing can watch on youtube,you will get an excellent idea of what it was like.Videos are posted by Coastal Skydive South Australia,the firm that organises the jumps.Terrific bunch of fellows.Just pop their name into the search box on youtube.There are three beach landing sites,mine was at Semaphore,South Australia.Free fall for about ten thousand feet,then five thousand under open canopy.Not exactly cheap,but worth every cent.
As Bond 44 remarks,we do need a variety of persons postings,and I would like more of the elderly to do so.So much history is lost,because those who experienced it pass on without recording it..
Nothing special about me,but I have been witness to special time s in history.I have served in the military,trade unions,and law enforcement,a combination that allows me to comment on a variety of subjects.My opinions are just that opinion,and of course are open to challenge.I do not profess to be correct all the time,cannot prove all my claims as beyond absolute belief,but despite my age,my memory is good,and there is so much on the internet that helps refresh
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,990Quartermasters
Didn't realise I may be the oldest person posting.but thanks for the compliments.Did my first tandem parachute jump on 18 ,November
last year,two days after my 90th birthday.A birthday present.Anyone wishing can watch on youtube,you will get an excellent idea of what it was like.Videos are posted by Coastal Skydive South Australia,the firm that organises the jumps.Terrific bunch of fellows.Just pop their name into the search box on youtube.There are three beach landing sites,mine was at Semaphore,South Australia.Free fall for about ten thousand feet,then five thousand under open canopy.Not exactly cheap,but worth every cent.
As Bond 44 remarks,we do need a variety of persons postings,and I would like more of the elderly to do so.So much history is lost,because those who experienced it pass on without recording it..
Nothing special about me,but I have been witness to special time s in history.I have served in the military,trade unions,and law enforcement,a combination that allows me to comment on a variety of subjects.My opinions are just that opinion,and of course are open to challenge.I do not profess to be correct all the time,cannot prove all my claims as beyond absolute belief,but despite my age,my memory is good,and there is so much on the internet that helps refresh
An honor for you to be here, sir. Long life and good health! Cheers
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
...
There were also stories of people going as far as self-mutilation to avoid military service, but I don't know how old thoise stories were....
When I was in service, we took great pains to instruct the conscripts about proper clothing and procedures in winter (arctic to the ones from more civilized climes...) conditions. Then we would "know" it was intentional if someone had a certain type of frostbite. Those people would then face the "music" for self mutilation with the intent of avoiding service.
Now don't get me wrong, frostbites occur regularly in below 0C° conditions, especially when manipulating cold steel objects with bare hands, there just is no completely avoiding it. But then there are always those that are stupid and/or lazy...
"I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
-Mr Arlington Beech
Didn't realise I may be the oldest person posting.but thanks for the compliments.Did my first tandem parachute jump on 18 ,November
last year,two days after my 90th birthday.A birthday present.Anyone wishing can watch on youtube,you will get an excellent idea of what it was like.Videos are posted by Coastal Skydive South Australia,the firm that organises the jumps.Terrific bunch of fellows.Just pop their name into the search box on youtube.There are three beach landing sites,mine was at Semaphore,South Australia.Free fall for about ten thousand feet,then five thousand under open canopy.Not exactly cheap,but worth every cent.
As Bond 44 remarks,we do need a variety of persons postings,and I would like more of the elderly to do so.So much history is lost,because those who experienced it pass on without recording it..
Nothing special about me,but I have been witness to special time s in history.I have served in the military,trade unions,and law enforcement,a combination that allows me to comment on a variety of subjects.My opinions are just that opinion,and of course are open to challenge.I do not profess to be correct all the time,cannot prove all my claims as beyond absolute belief,but despite my age,my memory is good,and there is so much on the internet that helps refresh
Brintman Good on you I hope I am jumping out of planes at 90!
My lasting regret is I never recorded the stories of my grand parent generation, be it on the home front and living through the Blitz or those of daring do on foreign lands as you say sadly consigned to history as the memories fade.
Do keep well and enjoy life it’s too short to do anything else!
Take care
Cheers :007)
My name is Bond, Basildon Bond - I have letters after my name!
...
There were also stories of people going as far as self-mutilation to avoid military service, but I don't know how old thoise stories were....
When I was in service, we took great pains to instruct the conscripts about proper clothing and procedures in winter (arctic to the ones from more civilized climes...) conditions. Then we would "know" it was intentional if someone had a certain type of frostbite. Those people would then face the "music" for self mutilation with the intent of avoiding service.
Now don't get me wrong, frostbites occur regularly in below 0C° conditions, especially when manipulating cold steel objects with bare hands, there just is no completely avoiding it. But then there are always those that are stupid and/or lazy...
You don't have to be stupid or lazy, but it certainly helps. When my father was in the infantry in the early 60's his platoon was ordered to march up a mountain and wait there. the higher-ups neglected to give them tents and refused to let them og down again for hours. My father got a frostbite in the face.
You don't have to be stupid or lazy, but it certainly helps. When my father was in the infantry in the early 60's his platoon was ordered to march up a mountain and wait there. the higher-ups neglected to give them tents and refused to let them og down again for hours. My father got a frostbite in the face.
Exactly! That's what I meant, sorry if I did not come through too clearly. I meant that frostbites happen in cold, there is no avoiding it. I´ve had several myself, even when I took all precautions; one time my right ear was stuck frozen into my issued fur hat. I had this vague sensation that there was something hanging in there, and tried to rip it of my hat, when a mate managed to stop me before I caused real damage to my self! ) ) ) Even my fingers were so numb, that I didn't realize what it was I was yanking at! That was over 20 years ago, I still get these pains to my ear from time to time!
Frostbites are a very real, disability causing issue! Which is why I have very little sympathy for those that are lazy and stupid enough to either intentionally or by neglect cause themselves to have a frostbite, just in order to get a "medical D". Example: every year there was some 4-hole, who would act contrary to instruction and get, sometimes a serious, frostbite. These geniuses would think that frostbite wouldn't look intentional and would be easier to cure than, say hitting your own leg with an ax....
"I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
-Mr Arlington Beech
After school, the airforce called me for 15 months to a small town nearby Ingolstadt.
My Military Career was brief and successful
I realized that I could not stand still in line for more than 10 minutes and was sent to the military doctor who was great - more later.
After he checked me, he sent me to a civilian clinic because the base did not have an x-ray and their knowledge in orthopedics was limited. The civilian doctor x-rayed my hip and told me that he could not see anything extraordinary.
I was always bad in biology, but I pointed to a tennis-ball spot at the lower border of the photograph and asked him, what that was.
The doctor "Oh, sh*t" and sent me back to the x-ray. He then discovered that I had a bone-like tumor on my thigh neck and it was clear that I needed a surgery. That was on Thursday and when I came home and met my gf on Saturday, I told her, that I would be coming home the following week.
So the following Wednesday - after 9 days - I was released and had my surgery.
They checked me again 2 years later, but as I have a 35 cm. long scar on my upper leg, they did not want to risk it and I was released because of medical concerns. I still have the document.
My military memories are:
The base doctor was fresh pulled from university and was absolutely pissed off about his status. The good thing was, that he was absolutely great with the patients but was messing around with all the higher ranks, even the base commander. I am sure that he tried to push them to fire him. In my presence the base general called and asked him for a meeting. He said "if he wants to speak with me, he comes over here because I am busy with patients"
Because I was driven around between doctors, hospitals and bases, I have missed most of my military education. I even missed when everybody was getting their firearms and clothing. I was walking around the base in civilian clothing and an officer stopped me because I did not salute him and asked where my uniform was. After a long back and forth, I could convince him, that I have not attended a single class there in military drill.
I also remember that one day, I have returned very late to the base, having missed lunch and dinner.
The cook himself took the time to prepare something for me which tasted absolutely great!
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
After school, the airforce called me for 15 months to a small town nearby Ingolstadt.
My Military Career was brief and successful
I realized that I could not stand still in line for more than 10 minutes and was sent to the military doctor who was great - more later.
After he checked me, he sent me to a civilian clinic because the base did not have an x-ray and their knowledge in orthopedics was limited. The civilian doctor x-rayed my hip and told me that he could not see anything extraordinary.
I was always bad in biology, but I pointed to a tennis-ball spot at the lower border of the photograph and asked him, what that was.
The doctor "Oh, sh*t" and sent me back to the x-ray. He then discovered that I had a bone-like tumor on my thigh neck and it was clear that I needed a surgery. That was on Thursday and when I came home and met my gf on Saturday, I told her, that I would be coming home the following week.
So the following Wednesday - after 9 days - I was released and had my surgery.
They checked me again 2 years later, but as I have a 35 cm. long scar on my upper leg, they did not want to risk it and I was released because of medical concerns. I still have the document.
My military memories are:
The base doctor was fresh pulled from university and was absolutely pissed off about his status. The good thing was, that he was absolutely great with the patients but was messing around with all the higher ranks, even the base commander. I am sure that he tried to push them to fire him. In my presence the base general called and asked him for a meeting. He said "if he wants to speak with me, he comes over here because I am busy with patients"
Because I was driven around between doctors, hospitals and bases, I have missed most of my military education. I even missed when everybody was getting their firearms and clothing. I was walking around the base in civilian clothing and an officer stopped me because I did not salute him and asked where my uniform was. After a long back and forth, I could convince him, that I have not attended a single class there in military drill.
I also remember that one day, I have returned very late to the base, having missed lunch and dinner.
The cook himself took the time to prepare something for me which tasted absolutely great!
Good military service story, Higgins!
The cook on my base was a bit different. Rumour had it he'd been fired 3-4 times for theft and incompetence. Sadly this was the least popular army base in the country (bad male/famale ratio, geography, climate etc), so no-one else applied for the job and he returned every time. It wasn't uncomon for the kitchen not to de-frost properly the bread in time for breakfast, so we ate half-frozen sandwiches for breakfast and make morefrozen sandwiches for the field lunch. Deserts (not deserters )) were so sparse and uncommon everyone dropped what they had and ran if a desert was spotted. By the time the kitchen staff put the trays with deserts on the table the trays were already empty - it was like a pack of wolves!
A mention was made in the foregoing posts about conscientious objectors.Those who tried to avoid military sevice,mostly I believe,on religious grounds.It is true an element of shame was directed at these persons,and I believe names were printed in local papers.This could have been avoided.Conscription,in the UK,was for national service.All males between certain ages,beginning at 18 years had to register.It did not mean all males were directed into the armed forces.To support one soldier,sailor or airman,it was reckoned it needed about six or seven workers in what was termed essential services.So in conjunction with registering for national service,came the essential works order.That order ensured those workers in what was termed essential employment,remained there,and those registering for national service,could be directed to such employment,w here they could be trained.The coal mines were considered an essential service.Many who registered became miners.During that period,Myself, three brothers,and three sisters served in various military or associated units.Only one was involved in a firefight with an enemy.
In Norway we have/had religious conscientious objectors, but also non-religious objectors. They are interviewed and asked about various ethical questions. The most important one goes something like this: "Say if a man attacked your family and was about to kill your family. If no other solutions were available (talking him out of it, call the police etc) and you had a hammer, would you kill the man?"
If the young man in the interview said he wouldn't kill even in that situation, ha was exempt from military service. But if he replied that he would kill in that situation, but not take part in organized war, you could end up in jail.
In Finland, there are plenty of opportunities for conscientious objectors: 1) an un-armed military service; depending on what you do, it is either 255 days or 347 days and doesn't include any armed military instruction. 2) civilian service, it is what it is, non military service 347 days. 3) Jehovas witnesses and people from Åland are exempt from any service, if they so choose. 4) if your objection is with the idea of duty to your homeland, then you will serve 173 day prison term.
Anyways; I have no objection with the idea, that not everybody serves in the military, I have seen plenty of people who were not mentally fit for military service, and there they were! Always made me feel uneasy to see these folks with weapons....
"I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
-Mr Arlington Beech
I have much respect for Mr brintman for doing a parachute jump at such a great age. I think there will be many soldiers here who did parachute jumps. This I never did. My regiment was not trained to parachute but there was some soldiers who did learn this and wore the parachute wings in the sleeve. I was glad I never had to do this! I think the nearest thing I did to the sensation of jumping from an aircraft was jumping from the cliff into the water. There was a place where recruits used to jump the twenty metres from the cliff into the river. This was had to be done in uniform and boots. I was not a good swimmer before I joined the army but had to learn this skill. I was very scared to jump this high into the river and each of the recruit had to go up the track to this place when the name was called. I went at the first time and I was told that there was an accident with the other training platoon before my course. A recruit had been killed by jumping into the water and hitting a rock under the water. This made me very scared but I was even more scared when the corporal told me to put on the backpack full of rocks. They told me that I must jump with this pack and then walk along the bottom of the river to the side. They told me that if I did not do this I would be failed for the task and that I would go in front of the officer for being a coward.
Two of the corporals put the pack on because it was too heavy to lift on my own. I was very shaking and scared now. I was told to come to the corporal near the edge and he asked me if I was prepared to jump with the pack. He must have seen how much scared I was and I was even shaking. I said I was going to jump with the pack. And as I said this the pack was taken away. They wanted to see if I would do this or not. But I still had to jump. The story of the recruit being killed was also not true and they just said this and the backpack to make the recruit even more scared for the joke I think!
Comments
Just a friendly reminder - each has to make his own assessment, naturally.
Cheers :007)
Obsessive Collectors on the memorabilia threads !
Agreed, logistics for me reaching the dizzy heights of Lance Corporal (generally accepted to be the hardest working rank in the army - although it may be generally accepted by Lance Corporals :-) )
Military spending in NATO by percent of GDP:
http://time.com/4680885/nato-defense-spending-budget-trump/
Higest military spending per capita. I found number six and seven surprising, but for very different reasons:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditure_per_capita
PERSEC should be in every ones mind when posting just about anything on an open forum; that goes with any information about valuable possessions, occupation, when you are going to be absent form home, relatives, people you know, hobbies, etc. not just with info on military service.
You'll never know who's lurking in the shadows interwebs collecting scraps of info with the intent of targeting. :v
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhZHYmczfHs
-Mr Arlington Beech
A valuable lesson I learned in the army.If you committed an offence against military law,one had to appear before the company commander.It was usual to plead guilty,no excuse,but one particular officer would not accept this.He would reply,'I am not looking for excuses,I want to know the reasons". We can apply that to almost everything.There is a reason for what we say and do.
In days of old that chat with the Sgt Maj normally involved a chat behind the barrack block and one question ‘Do you want my punishment or go up in front of the OC’, the former normally ending up with said miscrent getting up off the floor (it used to be called deterence) . But that is long gone now and there are other ways to inform troops of the error of their ways. (Like removing their Xbox)
Cheers :007)
P.S with the advent of plastic few of the current generation would know what 5 pence was let alone a shilling. That tradition long since past but they all still swear the oath to the Queen.
Indeed. Very informative.
What of military humour? Humour! Well here is a little story,Quite true I assure you.
The year 1947.My company was stationed in Hamilton,Bermuda.There was also a training camp at Warwick,and our training ground w as the foreshore extending from Jobsons Cove as far as,and including ,Horseshoe Bay.I am sure some posters will know where I describe.It was a time when the platoon ,of which I was a member,was there for training.
One night a dog crawled in to camp,and was found in the morning.It appeared old, was in very bad shape,covered in sores,and obviously on the brink of dying.It had trouble eating and drinking.So the humane thing was to kill it.There ws some objection to this.
What grounds did we have for killing it.The platoon sergeant suggested we court martial the dog on the grounds it was illegally on Crown land,and was a spy.If found guilty it would be shot,if innocent left to die normally.The Lieutenant in charge agreed.So a court martial was held,and a guilty verdict returned.Sentence,death by firing squad.
So the dog was taken to the foreshore,tied by a piece of rope to a wooden stake,and a grave dug.Then the firing squad was assembled,
and rifles loaded with one round each.Then someone spoiled it.The commands ready,take aim were called,but before fire could be utterd,someone fired,and the rest of us joined in.No one owned up to firing the first shot,but really who cared.
So somewhere about 150 yards from Jobsons Cove,in the middle of the foreshore,if someone cared to dig they might find a dog;s skeleton,a wooden stake,a piece of rope,and some .303 bullets.
My above post was in no way derogatory of the current generation, having seen them step up on operations I am certain they are equal to those of previous generations. What has happened is the raw product has changed because society has changed. We have all become more risk adverse and I would say leisure/ comfort focused.
I think of my own youth, as a lad I was out at sun rise and back many times after sunset (to a clip round the ear as a deterrent). I would be playing war around local woods, Forrest’s or local derelict buildings with my mates having watched an old war film or two (Longest Day or A Bridge too Far). At Christmas I would sneak down stairs and I would listen at the door to my grand parents talking about the war years my grandad was in the Home Guard (reserved occupation), but his brothers Parachute Regiment (Arnhem), Commandos (Norway) and Royal Engineers (D Day). Strangely my grandfather came closest to death when a grenade practice went wrong, or so he would say. I would listen in awe as the beer flowed and the stories of daring do shared (once again - it was an annual event). But they never spoke of it when the family was around it was like a club. I always wondered why.
Now with my own experiences I get it, they are personal and few would truly understand and many would stand in judgement though they were never there. Sometimes you have done things out of necessity that even your nearest or dearest would struggle to reconcile, so it’s easier to say nothing (ignorance is bliss as they say).
But then I look at the current generation (probably like my grandad did at me) and my own children. My son is bussed everywhere by ‘parents cabs’ for his own safety (sign of the times) and the war generation have sadly long since passed. The thought of him playing in a derelict house or doing anything remotely dangerous would send my wife appaplectic (oh how things have changed). He knows of my military service but not what I had done or do. He spends more time in trainers than leather shoes, plays games and watches TV more than going out side. He has never really camped under canvas because he did it once was a bit cold and so he prefers his bed. But he can pretty much pick up any technical device and be working it in seconds (to my annoyance). His saving grace is he plays football and so gets many of the soft skills I got through military service through team sports and I am fine with that (my wife and I had a pact I would never promote military service with my children at all). Occasionally he will watch something Military on TV and say have you done that, he gets a wry smile in response if I have. He cares more about the world than I ever did (I was more could not care less) and I would say is much more ‘informed’ than I ever was at his age.
So take him and his generation put them in military training it will naturally be tougher than for previous generations, but with time, encouragement and training they get there as the last decades have proven (a journey of personal discovery that they can do so much more than they thought - because these days we place more restrictions on our kids than freedoms to ‘protect’ them).
Many in government now feel Conflicts can be fought and won by drone warfare but reality is you will always need to put troops on the ground to mop up or dominate it once taken. So you need people in your armed forces to do the job. In future whatever happens the cause must be justified and supported by the populous to be anywhere near successful (we have seen what happens if not).
As for discipline is was tougher back in the day, but some took it too far, made it personal or crossed the line and the military had to evolve out of necessity and it was the right thing to do. I was once ‘banged out’ by my Pl Sgt for missing first parade after a night out. I knew I had broken the rules and with a sore head already the addition of a fat lip was a good deterrent not to break the rules next time. It wasn’t bullying it was a lesson in life - a short sharp shock that I never forgot and taugh me much. And the same guy who delivered it was the best man at my wedding some years later. He admitted the same had happened to him some years before, so it was kind of a passage of rights. But it would not happen today, you would get some sort of ‘Administrative Action’ aka a different type of slap on the wrists - moving with the times.
Like I said it’s called evolution, nothing stays the same things change but strangely in military service there is always a thread that binds us all serving or ex serving - our experiences and you can never take that away.
Just some random thoughts on a Sunday morning.
Cheers :007)
I think even men who have served in different armys have always some thing in common to share with each other.
Nice, we need a variety of people here and all your experiance is an asset.
I think conscription and the attitudes to it has changed since I did my national service back in 1991-92. Back then the cold war was not quite over and all boys exept the completely medically unfit and conscientious objectors had to serve. The family od one of my class mates conscientious objectors and one or two of his brothers had to go to jail for it.
There were also stories of people going as far as self-mutilation to avoid military service, but I don't know how old thoise stories were.
Generally military service was seen as something boys had to go through. It was seen as a burden by many, but not doing it was seen as more or less shameful.
If you had some physical problems such as bad hearing, but not enough to be rejected you were a "delvis" ("partial") and could do most things, but not all. Personally I had a back injury, but I was only exempt from some of the heaviest lifting (I was a combat engineer).
Now we have a ridiculously small army and the military needs only a fractions of the 18 year-olds. Norway has female conscription now too. As a result only the most motivated and fit are exepted, and no-one is drafted against their will.
What raid in Norway did your grandad's brother take part in, Bond44? Måløy, Vågsøy, Lofoten, Spitzbergen or one of the smaller raids?
I remember him saying his wife wanted him to leave the infantry because it was dangerous so he joined the Commandos and spent months raiding Norway and even a stint sitting under the German Army HQ somewhere! (always made him laugh she thought Commandos didn’t go anywhere if only she knew)
Cheers :007)
last year,two days after my 90th birthday.A birthday present.Anyone wishing can watch on youtube,you will get an excellent idea of what it was like.Videos are posted by Coastal Skydive South Australia,the firm that organises the jumps.Terrific bunch of fellows.Just pop their name into the search box on youtube.There are three beach landing sites,mine was at Semaphore,South Australia.Free fall for about ten thousand feet,then five thousand under open canopy.Not exactly cheap,but worth every cent.
As Bond 44 remarks,we do need a variety of persons postings,and I would like more of the elderly to do so.So much history is lost,because those who experienced it pass on without recording it..
Nothing special about me,but I have been witness to special time s in history.I have served in the military,trade unions,and law enforcement,a combination that allows me to comment on a variety of subjects.My opinions are just that opinion,and of course are open to challenge.I do not profess to be correct all the time,cannot prove all my claims as beyond absolute belief,but despite my age,my memory is good,and there is so much on the internet that helps refresh
An honor for you to be here, sir. Long life and good health! Cheers
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
When I was in service, we took great pains to instruct the conscripts about proper clothing and procedures in winter (arctic to the ones from more civilized climes...) conditions. Then we would "know" it was intentional if someone had a certain type of frostbite. Those people would then face the "music" for self mutilation with the intent of avoiding service.
Now don't get me wrong, frostbites occur regularly in below 0C° conditions, especially when manipulating cold steel objects with bare hands, there just is no completely avoiding it. But then there are always those that are stupid and/or lazy...
-Mr Arlington Beech
My lasting regret is I never recorded the stories of my grand parent generation, be it on the home front and living through the Blitz or those of daring do on foreign lands as you say sadly consigned to history as the memories fade.
Do keep well and enjoy life it’s too short to do anything else!
Take care
Cheers :007)
You don't have to be stupid or lazy, but it certainly helps. When my father was in the infantry in the early 60's his platoon was ordered to march up a mountain and wait there. the higher-ups neglected to give them tents and refused to let them og down again for hours. My father got a frostbite in the face.
Exactly! That's what I meant, sorry if I did not come through too clearly. I meant that frostbites happen in cold, there is no avoiding it. I´ve had several myself, even when I took all precautions; one time my right ear was stuck frozen into my issued fur hat. I had this vague sensation that there was something hanging in there, and tried to rip it of my hat, when a mate managed to stop me before I caused real damage to my self!
Frostbites are a very real, disability causing issue! Which is why I have very little sympathy for those that are lazy and stupid enough to either intentionally or by neglect cause themselves to have a frostbite, just in order to get a "medical D". Example: every year there was some 4-hole, who would act contrary to instruction and get, sometimes a serious, frostbite. These geniuses would think that frostbite wouldn't look intentional and would be easier to cure than, say hitting your own leg with an ax....
-Mr Arlington Beech
After school, the airforce called me for 15 months to a small town nearby Ingolstadt.
My Military Career was brief and successful
I realized that I could not stand still in line for more than 10 minutes and was sent to the military doctor who was great - more later.
After he checked me, he sent me to a civilian clinic because the base did not have an x-ray and their knowledge in orthopedics was limited. The civilian doctor x-rayed my hip and told me that he could not see anything extraordinary.
I was always bad in biology, but I pointed to a tennis-ball spot at the lower border of the photograph and asked him, what that was.
The doctor "Oh, sh*t" and sent me back to the x-ray. He then discovered that I had a bone-like tumor on my thigh neck and it was clear that I needed a surgery. That was on Thursday and when I came home and met my gf on Saturday, I told her, that I would be coming home the following week.
So the following Wednesday - after 9 days
They checked me again 2 years later, but as I have a 35 cm. long scar on my upper leg, they did not want to risk it and I was released because of medical concerns. I still have the document.
My military memories are:
The base doctor was fresh pulled from university and was absolutely pissed off about his status. The good thing was, that he was absolutely great with the patients but was messing around with all the higher ranks, even the base commander. I am sure that he tried to push them to fire him. In my presence the base general called and asked him for a meeting. He said "if he wants to speak with me, he comes over here because I am busy with patients"
Because I was driven around between doctors, hospitals and bases, I have missed most of my military education. I even missed when everybody was getting their firearms and clothing. I was walking around the base in civilian clothing and an officer stopped me because I did not salute him and asked where my uniform was. After a long back and forth, I could convince him, that I have not attended a single class there in military drill.
I also remember that one day, I have returned very late to the base, having missed lunch and dinner.
The cook himself took the time to prepare something for me which tasted absolutely great!
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Good military service story, Higgins!
The cook on my base was a bit different. Rumour had it he'd been fired 3-4 times for theft and incompetence. Sadly this was the least popular army base in the country (bad male/famale ratio, geography, climate etc), so no-one else applied for the job and he returned every time. It wasn't uncomon for the kitchen not to de-frost properly the bread in time for breakfast, so we ate half-frozen sandwiches for breakfast and make morefrozen sandwiches for the field lunch. Deserts (not deserters
If the young man in the interview said he wouldn't kill even in that situation, ha was exempt from military service. But if he replied that he would kill in that situation, but not take part in organized war, you could end up in jail.
Anyways; I have no objection with the idea, that not everybody serves in the military, I have seen plenty of people who were not mentally fit for military service, and there they were! Always made me feel uneasy to see these folks with weapons....
-Mr Arlington Beech
Two of the corporals put the pack on because it was too heavy to lift on my own. I was very shaking and scared now. I was told to come to the corporal near the edge and he asked me if I was prepared to jump with the pack. He must have seen how much scared I was and I was even shaking. I said I was going to jump with the pack. And as I said this the pack was taken away. They wanted to see if I would do this or not. But I still had to jump. The story of the recruit being killed was also not true and they just said this and the backpack to make the recruit even more scared for the joke I think!