NTTD Movie Questions/remarks - not Reviews (maybe SPOILERS in responses)

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  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 18,613MI6 Agent
    edited October 4

    When Will the "Bond dies!" spoiler be out for the general population do you think? When will major media and internet sites talk about it without spoiler tags? Personally I'm impressed they've been this disiplined so far.

  • Golrush007Golrush007 South AfricaPosts: 3,172Quartermasters

    I reckon that dam might burst once the film has been out in the USA for a short while. I can't imagine the restraint will last all that long.

  • A7ceA7ce Birmingham, EnglandPosts: 652MI6 Agent

    Kudos to cast and crew, which goes into thousands who kept that quiet for last year and a half.

  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 18,613MI6 Agent

    I think Cary Fukunaga should be offered the directing job again. The critisism against NTTD hasn't been about his directing style. In fact I've only seen praise for him so far.

  • Red IndianRed Indian BostonPosts: 426MI6 Agent

    Number24 I have been thinking the same thing! I was shocked when the Star Wars movie came out and the death of Han Solo was kept quiet for a WHILE! I have a feeling this will be spoiled fairly quickly but will be happily surprised if people who have seen it respect those who have not.

  • Sir MilesSir Miles The Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 25,407Chief of Staff

    At UNSW, researchers use biological molecules – like DNA – to build these nanorobots. In a process called molecular self-assembly, tiny individual component parts build themselves into larger structures. ... For this project, the UNSW researchers implemented their design by synthesising DNA subunits, called PolyBricks.

    The above is a quote…I’m not that clever 😳🤣

    So, specific-target nanobots are built using that persons particular DNA so it will only attack them or a person sharing their DNA.

    YNWA 97
  • LexiLexi LondonPosts: 3,000MI6 Agent

    I LOVED the movie…

    as to how he programmed the nano bots… I would assume it’s the same way he could programme them against Spectre… 💁🏼‍♀️

    Saffin is an evil genius… HOW he does it isn’t something I need to know! 🤣

    She's worth whatever chaos she brings to the table and you know it. ~ Mark Anthony
  • Colonel ShatnerColonel Shatner Chavtastic Bristol, BritainPosts: 564MI6 Agent
    edited October 4

    This movie makes the SPECTRE organisation actively more menacing than in their first movie where they were properly introduced, though the water is further muddied around Mr. White's role in SPECTRE and what role Quantum really played in the Craig stories. My head canon is that Quantum was the secret cabal of corrupt industrialists, bankers, and government officials, while SPECTRE was the armed, trained muscle (the key chain bomber and Adolph Gettler's crew were actual SPECTRE agents all along; the scarred bomber, Silva's crew, and Patrice were 3rd party freelancers).

    C and Longan Ash were inducted through Quantum many years ago rather than SPECTRE directly (while Silva never knew Blofeld was his backer), though the Quantum organisation was quietly dissolved after too many of its key members were exposed by Bond, with Blofeld gaining tighter control through SPECTRE (with Mr. White kicked out and remaining Quantum VIPs fully inducted as heads of SPECTRE - they were half of the bigwigs who got poisoned by nanites).

    'Alright guard, begin the unnecessarily slow moving dipping mechanism...'
  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 9,366MI6 Agent

    That's a good observation, @Colonel Shatner but it's for you to make - the series itself doesn't. They seem to be sort of making it up as they go along.

    The whole conspiracy theory thing mentioned earlier has a bit of truth to it when it comes to 'everything linking up' but only up to a point. I mean, when it comes to the British State, the local authorities tend to cover for the police and vice versa, the regulators are on the side of the companies they regulate and so on. Having gone through the complaints process, I do sort of get what Mr White is saying when he says 'We have people everywhere' and the recent films have hinted that the British Establishment has itself been infiltrated - Fiennes' M was suspect in Skyfall, and suspect again in this. (It's not too crazy - see how long it takes for the Hillsborough relatives, Contaminated Blood victims etc to see justice, if ever.)

    Unfortunately, once one starts thinking like this, confirmation bias kicks in. That said, until one begins to think about this, the initial prejudice tends to be, hey, I trust the Government/Police/Media etc implicitly so it simply flips.

    I wouldn't mention this stuff normally but as I've pointed out, this film does tap into all this and therefore is more like a kind of conspiracy thriller from the 1970s, those films where the hero goes after a cause but it doesn't end well for him.

    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • Colonel ShatnerColonel Shatner Chavtastic Bristol, BritainPosts: 564MI6 Agent

    The writers and producers are making up as they go along, but even in the MCU films the relationship between HYDRA that infiltrated/corrupted SHIELD and HYDRA in Soviet Russia (with HYDRA's Leviathan organisation perhaps encompassing the Red Room and Winter Soldier operations, etc) seemed similarly very murky and on the fly (plus the Ten Rings, Council of Nine, and AIM alongside them).

    I go with the pet theory that Quantum was the more subtle, widespread, and influencial sister organisation to SPECTRE going back many, many decades (even centuries) and descended from a secret network of powerful merchants, bankers, and aristocrats operating in Central to Southern Europe (while SPECTRE were the "spectral" gang of assassins, thugs and mercenary knights working with the cabal).

    Ms. Swan misinterpreted her father's documents in his panic room cum mini command centre - Blofeld was not commanding Mr. White to wipe out Safin's clan at the time, but was a mid ranking SPECTRE facilitator providing intelligence in a mission briefing, with the command coming from the Quantum high council in 1997 (though these finer details were in old documents destroyed by Mr. White).

    'Alright guard, begin the unnecessarily slow moving dipping mechanism...'
  • chrisno1chrisno1 LondonPosts: 1,507MI6 Agent

    @Colonel Shatner I think we can tell they made it allup as they went along. While QOS easily followed CR - they just had to create a new secret organisation to represent Mr White - SF never seemed to fall into Quantum's remit, so when it looked as if SP would be Craig's swan song, they thought 'let's shove in SPECTRE and Blofeld.' The problem IMO is that the two organisations are virtual clones. They'd have been better off either binning SPECTRE & Blofeld or binning Quantum. Either would result in a less convoluted and forgettable plot shenanigans than we have been left with.

    Safins role in the NTTD saga isn't explained very well at all, ever.

    Your speculation is fine, but why do I / you / we have to speculate? It doesn't reveal joined up thinking, more a case of throwing darts and seeing where they strike.

  • TheTowerBridgeFoxTheTowerBridgeFox Posts: 13MI6 Agent

    The films great!!! but I think they should refrain from CGIing building that don't really exist into London.

    especially if they are large structures that UNESCO and English heritage would take issue with.

  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 9,366MI6 Agent
    edited October 6

    Okay, here's one.

    In the second to opening scene with Bond and Mads in Athens - and it's a taut, menacing scene filled with gradual dread - we and Bond are meant to think that Mads is the traitor and set Bond up. Not just the bomb going off, but the army of Spectre personnel then descending on Bond - er, all waiting just in case the bomb didn't do the trick I guess - and the fact that when Bond returns Mads has her bags packed as if not expecting Bond to be back.

    But later we learn from Blofeld - perhaps an unreliable source - that Bond had it all wrong. The bomb was set to go off any time Bond went near it on the basis that he would visit Vesper's grave at some point. (What triggers the bomb incidentally? Is Bond wearing a lapel pin that activates it, like King in the pre-credits of The World is Not Enough?)

    So if Mads is the wronged, innocent party in this, then how come an army of Spectre hoodlums would be waiting for Bond to show up? Vesper died years ago so have they been lying in wait forever, like idle union members sitting around playing cards and drinking tea, waiting for Bond to show up? Or just since the last adventure?

    Why did Mads have her bags packed? Bond puts her on a train - what she just heads off on her Tod with no passport or clothes? This makes sense if she's working for Spectre but not otherwise.

    Why would Blofeld put Bond straight about Mads' good intentions? To taunt him perhaps - look what you threw away - okay, but it's exposition really, and it advances the plot at the cost of any previous sense.

    Was this scene filmed before the script was changed? Or did they not just alter it? In the original Danny Boyle script, did it begin by having Mads as a traitor and then Bond going off on his own, perhaps with a new 00 as his rival/eventual love interest? Or with the Cuban novice instead? Did the producers then realise they were set to sell up and thus finish their direct involvement, and want to go out with a bang - ie well, how it ends. Was that the point when Boyle said, hang on, this isn't what I set out to do, so I'm bailing?

    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • Colonel ShatnerColonel Shatner Chavtastic Bristol, BritainPosts: 564MI6 Agent

    @chrisno1 - Of course, but it's fun to plug the minor plotholes and fix attempted retcons with the magic of head canon.

    Silva and his goons were likely not SPECTRE and Quantum directly, but it's not a giant stretch Silva's organisation was given a degree of funding and logistical support in his attacks on Britain by SPECTRE in particular and maybe its sister organisation (and Silva in turn did a lot of cyber crime work for not only Quantum/SPECTRE, but myriad Triad crime families, North Korea, the Russian mafia, and even the PRC in his long absence from MI6).

    And why was Mr. White in hiding from SPECTRE and poisoned from polonium? Why was Quantum only mentioned as an afterthought when they spoke of Mr. White (as if was disbanded or faded away)?

    @Napoleon Plural

    Well in the last movie the SPECTRE organisation (perhaps building on all the groundwork by Silva plus the tech firms run by Quantum and government officials Quantum corrupted) was shown in control of a very sophisticated surveillance network - even though their Morocco data surveillance facility went kaboom, C killed, the "Nine Eyes" algorithm aborted, and Blofeld arrested, the remaining SPECTRE movement likely still had enough clout to have to establish a twin electronic data surveillance facility elsewhere to spy on Bond and Madaleine Swann, and hack their basic cellphones (plus Bond and Ms. Swann unwisely decided to retire in Italy, the stronghold of SPECTRE, around a scenic town where many locals, corrupt cops, and mobsters all reported to SPECTRE).

    'Alright guard, begin the unnecessarily slow moving dipping mechanism...'
  • VenutiusVenutius Posts: 9MI6 Agent
    edited October 6

    When Felix asked Bond to carry out a mission, how did Phoebe WB miss the chance to have Bond say 'Now? I'd rather smash this glass and slash my wrists!'?

  • chrisno1chrisno1 LondonPosts: 1,507MI6 Agent

    Bond believes the young man who leads Bond to the tomb activates it - they exchange 'knowing glances' . As for the Madeleine bit and the bag packing well, is there a suggestion they are staying more than one night? Why wouldn't she pack the bags, midday checkout at the latest in Italy, I don't see why everyone's making such a play about this. What it really reveals again is Bond's messed up, messy and impulsive thinking. He's jumping to the wrong conclusion again. And yes, you are right, she leaves all her luggage in the car. I enjoyed the Matera scenes, but as usual with Craig, I had and still have no idea what was really happening.

  • Colonel ShatnerColonel Shatner Chavtastic Bristol, BritainPosts: 564MI6 Agent
    edited October 6

    Also Italy, through previous Craig films, is implied to be the stronghold of SPECTRE and its sister organisation, Quantum; almost everything bad that goes down with SPECTRE happens within and not so far away from Italy (Austria with the Quantum high council meeting and Morocco being another of Mr. White's tramping grounds, plus Blofeld's elaborate crater facility, etc).

    And perhaps after C was killed and his "Nine Eyes" algorithm aborted (plus that major SPECTRE data surveillance facility going kaboom), even when crippled and more limited, SPECTRE likely still had an effective global surveillance network left over to shadow Bond and Swann, tapping into their mobile phones etc, plus they unwisely retired in what was likely a Mafia town (with corrupt cops and mobsters reporting to SPECTRE). Heck, even that kid and local sheep herders were in on the gag.

    'Alright guard, begin the unnecessarily slow moving dipping mechanism...'
  • tardis1711tardis1711 Posts: 202MI6 Agent

    I thought they were going to use an emp pulse to kill the nanobots..or did I miss a plot point why they can't

  • chrisno1chrisno1 LondonPosts: 1,507MI6 Agent

    @tardis1711 an emp what what to do what ???

  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 31,991Chief of Staff

    Electro Magnetic Pulse. The watch which Q gives Bond emits one. He's seen using it.

  • chrisno1chrisno1 LondonPosts: 1,507MI6 Agent

    Oh, yeah, another detail they rippled into the script so fast and without proper explanation. How do you guys pick up on this stuff? I'm paying attention, I really am, I simply can't remember half this stuff; TBH I'm not sure I care enough, but if it's important to the action we all ought to be able to pick it. I knew what Bond's watch did in LALD and MR and TB etc - why not here?

  • Colonel ShatnerColonel Shatner Chavtastic Bristol, BritainPosts: 564MI6 Agent
    edited October 6

    The nanomachines may become inert by EMP, but Q said they permanently lodge into human subjects/victims on a molecular level and still be bonded with the lethal chemical or viral compounds that kills specific targets.

    Also I have a pet theory Quantum's leadership ordered chief SPECTRE enforcer and chief liason operative Mr. White to wipe out Safin's clan because they were a doomsday cult (Mr. White was a manipulative cynic and Blofeld a self-important egomaniac, but they still wanted a world left standing to bilk money out of and corrupt).

    'Alright guard, begin the unnecessarily slow moving dipping mechanism...'
  • chrisno1chrisno1 LondonPosts: 1,507MI6 Agent

    @Colonel Shatner your theories are making more sense than the movie

  • Colonel ShatnerColonel Shatner Chavtastic Bristol, BritainPosts: 564MI6 Agent

    The movie made sense on a superficial level, but with the most powerful and invasive criminal conspiracy in human existence (operating through smoke and mirrors) the heroes were acting on incomplete data, especially with Mr. White being cryptic until his suicide and Blofeld spewing out vainglorious BS (a British minister chewed M out in QoS for going after this super crime syndicate that nobody ever heard of, so we're never given a clear view on how SPECTRE raised private armies in peacetime Western Europe and how Quantum alongside it wormed its way into the highest levels of even UK power).

    And a dangerous, paranoid organisation like SPECTRE would not wipe out a specific family for a tickle and a laugh, especially when its surviving son way back in the mid to late 90s (perhaps still in his late teens) was already a seasoned, brutal killer and his father was grooming him as a child to nurture a creepy death garden....

    'Alright guard, begin the unnecessarily slow moving dipping mechanism...'
  • tardis1711tardis1711 Posts: 202MI6 Agent
    edited October 7

    to stop the nanobots from working

    I did think that would be the answer.but looks like it was explained why it wouldnt work

  • i expect u2 diei expect u2 die LondonPosts: 583MI6 Agent

    The Cuba scenes are getting a lot of love, but I found it all a little messy and confusing. Some questions:


    • Why wasn’t the cyclops baddie (Primo?), as a member of Spectre, killed by ye olde nanobots at the party?
    • How exactly is Blofeld communicating through this eye? How is he seeing what the eye is seeing? How is his voice being recorded in the London cell? Is the ‘bionic eye’ M says Blofeld communicates with the one at the Cuba party, or a separate bionic eye that Blofeld himself is wearing? If so, how did Blofeld manage to acquire, let alone insert, a bionic eye whilst in a maximum security prison? Somebody please, please clear at least some of this up for me. It’s so woefully unexplained.
    • Why does Waldo/Valdo/whatever start running away? He asks Paloma if she’s his “escape”. He is expecting to be rescued. Isn’t Bond the person he’s been told to expect? So why run away from him?
    • Who are the various goons with machine guns? Presumably not Spectre - Safin’s men? Why are they there?
  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 9,366MI6 Agent

    It's not so odd that the prison is corrupt so like Groutie in Porridge, he might get some privileges, I mean everything else seems corrupt in this film. I don't mean official privileges, but it might have been smuggled in or there could be bent screws.

    What irks me is that we seem footage of him rambling like a madman for the cameras - what he spends all day faking that? But not notice him directing criminal operations?

    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • kaddkadd Posts: 915MI6 Agent

    Here are my thoughts…

    I assumed Primo is just a henchman rather than a SPECTRE agent. As the gas/nanobots didn’t kill everyone

    When Primo’s eye gets knocked out on the ground you see it’s a larger complex device. And when Q is scanning Blofeld’s eye you see it’s capable of receiving video and sound. Blofeld was communicating with Primo’s eye in Matera, and the eye on the platter being walked around in Cuba. How Blofeld got his eye into prison is not explained.

    Valdo runs away as he first thinks Palemo works for Safin and is his escape from SPECTRE. Whereas we find out his escape is actually Logan.

    Are you asking about the goons in Cuba? I assumed they were Spectre as it was their party. I don’t think there was anyone at the party from Safin’s crew

  • i expect u2 diei expect u2 die LondonPosts: 583MI6 Agent

    Thank you!


    re. eye - perhaps it’s my own stupidity, but I feel the script fails to make it clear that there are TWO such bionic eyes. Whenever an eye was mentioned, and even when Q was seen accessing it, I assumed it was Primo’s that we’d seen in Matera and Cuba. A simple line or scene explaining that they’d found an eye *in Blofeld’s face* would have helped me out (I guess he is missing an eye during the interrogation with Bond, but I assumed that was just a result of his injury in Spectre). As for how said eye connects to Blofeld’s brain and allows him to see what Primo’s eye is seeing, I suppose that’s a question for another day.

    And as for the “goons”, my understanding of the party was that literally every member of Spectre was killed by the nanobots, but perhaps goons were never afforded the status of “members”. Poor goons.

  • Sir MilesSir Miles The Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 25,407Chief of Staff
    • @i expect u2 die “Why wasn’t the cyclops baddie (Primo?), as a member of Spectre, killed by ye olde nanobots at the party?“

    That’s because the nanobots are programmed to attack specific targets…when Q is looking at the data base of SPECTRE agents you see how most have been killed, but some are still alive…that’s because the nanobots attack a persons DNA and not everyone who’s in a particular Boy Scout troop.

    YNWA 97
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