Pros and Cons: Die Another Day

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  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,926MI6 Agent
    Matt S wrote:
    chrisisall wrote:
    Still believe it's very underrated. I think once we get out of the Craig era (which by the way, don't get me wrong, I'll love), we'll be more accepting of a colorful less serious Bond film.
    What I don't quite understand is how many fans actually like MR a lot but most fans seem to despise DAD.... that's like loving apples but hating applesauce. :s

    MR has a consistent tone, and I think it's much better paced. The locations are better in MR. There are many similarities between the two films, but I think a lot of Moonraker is much better done.

    This ^

    MR has the better Locations -{
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
  • Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
    chrisisall wrote:
    Still believe it's very underrated. I think once we get out of the Craig era (which by the way, don't get me wrong, I'll love), we'll be more accepting of a colorful less serious Bond film.
    What I don't quite understand is how many fans actually like MR a lot but most fans seem to despise DAD.... that's like loving apples but hating applesauce. :s

    Exactly! Even Moore said "I was the first Bond in space and I found DAD ridiculous".

    I think campy elements are only criticized in low-ranked films. Oh, Moore in a clown suit is bad? Well, all of you were okay with Bond driving a tank in a populated city, despite being a SECRET agent.
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,926MI6 Agent
    I wouldn't really call the GE Tank Sequence Campy though.
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
  • Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
    It's immersion breaking. The point of a secret agent is to do what the military cannot. To work covertly and not make noise.
  • broadshoulderbroadshoulder Acton, London, UKPosts: 1,363MI6 Agent
    Moonraker wipes the floor with DAD. Its a parody done badly...

    One of my weaknesses is looking up bad reviews of DAD.....and laughing at them...
    1. For Your Eyes Only 2. The Living Daylights 3 From Russia with Love 4. Casino Royale 5. OHMSS 6. Skyfall
  • AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,926MI6 Agent
    It's immersion breaking. The point of a secret agent is to do what the military cannot. To work covertly and not make noise.

    It's one of my all time favourite Bond Scenes though.
    1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,062MI6 Agent
    It's immersion breaking. The point of a secret agent is to do what the military cannot. To work covertly and not make noise.

    It's one of my all time favourite Bond Scenes though.
    Mine as well.
    The reason I have fun reading a Fleming book is that you get immersed into another reality with them- in which every so often one has to smile when one realizes just how ridiculous the overall situation is that this very serious character faces. Bond movies are at their best when Bond does something nonchalantly that most ordinary people wouldn't even consider possible. -{
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • Bondage007Bondage007 AustraliaPosts: 371MI6 Agent
    The main negatives are the CGI and bad puns, yo mama, etc.

    Most of the pros are silly feel good moments that we finally got 10 years later with SF.

    Pros:
    + Great first half
    + Bond walking into the HK hotel dressed like a hobo
    + The grape eating scene
    + Invisible car
    + Ice palace (finally a villains lair. The CGI melting of it less said the better).
    + PTS
    + For the most part, Brosnan looks like he's having a blast.
    + "Hey boss, he beat your time"

    I don't get the uproar over the Madonna cameo. It was what, 5 seconds of screentime. Might as well get upset by Richard Branson's CR cameo.

    For the record, DAD is 20-21 in my ranking
    2019 Bondathon...in progress (6) FRWL (7) GE (8) FYEO (9) TND (10) MR (11) GF (12) LALD (13) DAF (14) LTK (15) TMWTGG (16) TB (17) TSWLM (18) DAD (19) AVTAK (20) YOLT (21) QOS (22) SF (23) TWINE (24) SP
  • Lady IceLady Ice Posts: 279MI6 Agent
    edited July 2015
    Pros:
    - Enjoyed Rosamund Pike and I think the twist of her being a villain is nicely handled.
    - I like the fire and ice theme
    - I liked the idea of the blood diamonds and the torture scene
    - It's so outlandish and ridiculous that once you consign yourself to it, it's quite fun
    - The duel between Bond and Graves is excellent

    Cons:
    - The film drags initially; North Korea isn't glamorous and I feel that the film should have at least started with a more appealing locale
    - The film starts off being serious but then becomes ludicrous; clearly there was no real idea about the direction it should have gone in
    - Toby Stephens being secretly Korean.

    Other thoughts:
    - The sex scene between Bond and Jinx seemed quite explicit compared to other films in the series.
    - I wonder whether elements of the beginning of the film could be used in a future Bond film (but made more exciting)
    - I don't mind Madonna's cameo, or Jinx
    - Really liked the opening credits


    DAD is proof for me that you can't really have dark and camp Bond in the same film. Sure you can have some dark moments in a lighter film and a dark film need not be humourless, but there's so much of a split between the early part of the film and the later part that it feels like your time is being wasted. I think that if they wanted camp, they should have kept the whole film at that level, rather than making a disjointed film with good moments dotted here and there.
  • hehadlotsofgutshehadlotsofguts Durham England Posts: 2,107MI6 Agent
    Pros

    Graves is a great villain

    liked to plot twist where it was Frost who sold Bond out in North Korea

    Sword fight with Bond and Graves

    Bond walking into the hotel in Hong Kong in his pyjamas, long hair and full beard like he owns the place.

    Cons

    i prefer it when the sex in Bond films is implied. To actually watch Bond hard at it, is out of place for a Bond film and uncomfortable to watch.

    The dialogue is littered with puns
    Have you ever heard of the Emancipation Proclamation?"

    " I don't listen to hip hop!"
  • Lady IceLady Ice Posts: 279MI6 Agent
    i prefer it when the sex in Bond films is implied. To actually watch Bond hard at it, is out of place for a Bond film and uncomfortable to watch.

    Agreed. It feels a bit off.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    Absolutely, pan to a fire or an open window. :D
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Agent PurpleAgent Purple Posts: 857MI6 Agent
    "I'm not that kind of masseuse." (Hope I spelled that right.)
    "I'm not that kind of costumer."
    "Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
    New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
    1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
    Bond actors to be re-ranked later
  • DiabolikDiabolik TexasPosts: 117MI6 Agent
    I think campy elements are only criticized in low-ranked films. Oh, Moore in a clown suit is bad? Well, all of you were okay with Bond driving a tank in a populated city, despite being a SECRET agent.
    It's called the rule of cool. Driving a tank around St. Petersburg is crazy, but it makes Bond look like one awesome mofo. In contrast, putting him in a clown suit makes him look like an imbecile.
    1.TSWLM 2.LTK 3.YOLT 4.OHMSS 5.TWINE 6.LALD 7.MR 8.GE 9.DN 10.FRWL
    Bond: Pierce Brosnan Villain: Hugo Drax Girl: Pam Bouvier
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    Diabolik wrote:
    I think campy elements are only criticized in low-ranked films. Oh, Moore in a clown suit is bad? Well, all of you were okay with Bond driving a tank in a populated city, despite being a SECRET agent.
    It's called the rule of cool. Driving a tank around St. Petersburg is crazy, but it makes Bond look like one awesome mofo. In contrast, putting him in a clown suit makes him look like an imbecile.

    I disagree.

    I think that the tank scene in GE is unbelievably stupid. Good idea to get out of the compound, but dumb destroying half of the city. The statue on top of the tank makes it even worse. IMO, it equals the double taking pigeon and Bondola. It doesn't ruin the film for me in either case - but I still hate them!!

    Moore dressing up in the clown suit has the potential to be ludicrous, but because it is the best solution to the problem of being chased at a circus "wearing a red shirt" and he needs to get inside the main-tent to defuse a bomb - it's an excellent solution.

    Not saying that Pierce doesn't act it well - but Moore makes the situation still extremely tense and believable you can look past the silliness of the face value of the clown suit.
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • HatThrowingHenchmanHatThrowingHenchman Russia With LovePosts: 1,834MI6 Agent
    Diabolik wrote:
    I think campy elements are only criticized in low-ranked films. Oh, Moore in a clown suit is bad? Well, all of you were okay with Bond driving a tank in a populated city, despite being a SECRET agent.
    It's called the rule of cool. Driving a tank around St. Petersburg is crazy, but it makes Bond look like one awesome mofo. In contrast, putting him in a clown suit makes him look like an imbecile.

    I disagree.

    I think that the tank scene in GE is unbelievably stupid. Good idea to get out of the compound, but dumb destroying half of the city. The statue on top of the tank makes it even worse. IMO, it equals the double taking pigeon and Bondola. It doesn't ruin the film for me in either case - but I still hate them!!

    Moore dressing up in the clown suit has the potential to be ludicrous, but because it is the best solution to the problem of being chased at a circus "wearing a red shirt" and he needs to get inside the main-tent to defuse a bomb - it's an excellent solution.

    Not saying that Pierce doesn't act it well - but Moore makes the situation still extremely tense and believable you can look past the silliness of the face value of the clown suit.

    next time Bond will take a cab just so it looks realisic enough.
    If it looks so cool, we'll see
    "You see Mr.Bond, you can't kill my dreams...but my dreams can kill you.Time to face destiny" - "Time to face gravity"
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    next time Bond will take a cab just so it looks realistic enough.

    I wouldn't go that far, perhaps just steal Q's fishing boat?? :p
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • Agent PurpleAgent Purple Posts: 857MI6 Agent
    "I know the rules. And number one is no deals. Get caught and you're given up."
    "Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
    New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
    1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
    Bond actors to be re-ranked later
  • Agent PurpleAgent Purple Posts: 857MI6 Agent
    Right now I say that I'd rather sit through this film, with it's ice palace, 2nd sun, cheesy puns, and invisible car (which I like) than through, say, TB.

    Just sayin'.

    Not that I hate TB, but it's not a Bond film I'm crazy about tbh.
    "Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
    New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
    1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
    Bond actors to be re-ranked later
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    Right now I say that I'd rather sit through this film, with it's ice palace, 2nd sun, cheesy puns, and invisible car (which I like) than through, say, TB.

    Just sayin'.

    Not that I hate TB, but it's not a Bond film I'm crazy about tbh.

    I know what you're saying. Even though I rate it higher in my rankings, I'd probably find DAD and easier watch than YOLT :o
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • Agent PurpleAgent Purple Posts: 857MI6 Agent
    hmd, you seem to like TB more than me, as you rank it above TND and FRWL. Each to their own I guess.

    I do somewhat like TB, it's just that I've some issues with it, which we can discuss in the Pros and Cons thread for that movie.
    "Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
    New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
    1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
    Bond actors to be re-ranked later
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    hmd, you seem to like TB more than me, as you rank it above TND and FRWL. Each to their own I guess.

    I do somewhat like TB, it's just that I've some issues with it, which we can discuss in the Pros and Cons thread for that movie.

    - FRWL; not a specific dislike, it just doesn't do enough for me to rate it.
    - TND; I just find the film to lame to take seriously, in quite a similar way to DAD - although it is better.

    As for rating TB higher than those films, I just really like the scenes in the Bahamas (casino, swimming, Domino etc.), without those scenes the film wouldn't do much for me. There's such a good mood to the way these scenes were done - it's almost like being a playboy on holiday.
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • Virgil37Virgil37 Posts: 1,212MI6 Agent
    Right now I say that I'd rather sit through this film, with it's ice palace, 2nd sun, cheesy puns, and invisible car (which I like) than through, say, TB.
    Just sayin'.

    I'm doing it at this very moment. DAD is on TV, and I'd rather sit through TB any day, without ice palace, 2nd sun, cheesy puns, invisible cars, and ridiculous tsunami surfing. And I had forgotten the high speed car hanging from the cliff...And I'm not particularly crazy about TB. Just Saying.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,062MI6 Agent
    Virgil37 wrote:
    DAD is on TV, and I'd rather sit through TB any day, without ice palace, 2nd sun, cheesy puns, invisible cars, and ridiculous tsunami surfing.
    TND is better. -{
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • Virgil37Virgil37 Posts: 1,212MI6 Agent
    chrisisall wrote:
    Virgil37 wrote:
    DAD is on TV, and I'd rather sit through TB any day, without ice palace, 2nd sun, cheesy puns, invisible cars, and ridiculous tsunami surfing.
    TND is better. -{

    Dear Chrisisall, almost quoting verbatim your dear friend Agent Purple, right now I say that I'd rather sit through DAD, with it's ice palace, 2nd sun, cheesy puns, and invisible car (which I don't like) than through TND.
    Just sayin'.
    Not that I hate TND. I hate it with a vengeance. -{ :D
  • DiabolikDiabolik TexasPosts: 117MI6 Agent
    edited October 2015
    I think that the tank scene in GE is unbelievably stupid. Good idea to get out of the compound, but dumb destroying half of the city. The statue on top of the tank makes it even worse. IMO, it equals the double taking pigeon and Bondola. It doesn't ruin the film for me in either case - but I still hate them!!
    Bond does a lot of dumb things in almost all of his movies, and rarely keeps a low profile. If you wanted to, you could have a field day with all of the ludicrous decisions he makes in every single film, even the more serious ones.

    I mean, since when was the series about showing how real espionage works, anyway? Let Bond drive a tank, give him a souped up Gondola, have him zoom around on a jetpack, etc. I couldn't care less, and there's no point in letting such trivialities bother you.

    In fact, the dumbest thing in GE has nothing to do with the tank. It's the villain lair at the end, which has a giant radio telescope they use to control a satellite.

    Except that anyone with even a passing understanding knows that such a device is completely unnecessary, because stations like that are for astronomy, not controlling satellites in orbit. Still, it makes for a cool climax, so I don't care.
    1.TSWLM 2.LTK 3.YOLT 4.OHMSS 5.TWINE 6.LALD 7.MR 8.GE 9.DN 10.FRWL
    Bond: Pierce Brosnan Villain: Hugo Drax Girl: Pam Bouvier
  • QuistQuist Posts: 61MI6 Agent
    Pros-
    A good pre credits sequence
    Another fantastic title sequence by Klienman
    The sleeper agent in Cuba was an interesting character
    The sword fight
    Everything up to and before Iceland

    Cons-
    The CGI Bullet in gunbarrel
    CGI everywhere!
    The song
    Maddona
    Halle Berry
    Icarus (another spaced based weapon- yawn)
    Graves was a crap villain
    All the villains were lame
    Robocop suit (how was anyone not suppose to laugh when they saw that)
    Virtual reality scene in Q's lab
    Michael Maddson was a wasted character
  • Agent PurpleAgent Purple Posts: 857MI6 Agent
    I think Berry did a good job as Jinx, however I will say that I think she and Brosnan had little in terms of chemistry.

    They somehow get away with it as a Bond/BG duo, but it's not the same as it was with Scorupco in GE.
    "Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
    New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
    1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
    Bond actors to be re-ranked later
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    Quist wrote:
    Michael Maddson was a wasted character

    He certainly was, I hated his character in this film.
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,597MI6 Agent
    Quist wrote:
    Michael Maddson was a wasted character

    He certainly was, I hated his character in this film.

    Hating him was clearly the point. But there was no point to his character.
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
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