Danny Boyle has left Bond25 over 'creative differences'

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  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,737MI6 Agent
    "For this is the end, I’ve drowned and dreamt this moment" (# )


    Bond actually died in the PTS of Skyfall. everything after are Dreams, as his brain shuts down. ;)
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Gala BrandGala Brand Posts: 1,166MI6 Agent
    "For this is the end, I’ve drowned and dreamt this moment" (# )


    Bond actually died in the PTS of Skyfall. everything after are Dreams, as his brain shuts down. ;)

    No, he died in Blofeld's dentist's chair. Everything after that was the dreams of a dying man.
  • StiffassBritStiffassBrit United KingdomPosts: 218MI6 Agent
    I'm not sure what killing Bond will achieve for EON or Craig. I thought by killing off 007 it would make it more difficult to restart the franchise with something new. Would it not have made more sense to leave it at Spectre and see him bow out in a more dignified manner?

    Many months before the speculation of who will be directing Bond 25 and before Boyle was announced a member posted the idea of back to back films which I thought would be plausible given the ending of Spectre. Now it just seems like a mess and the main concern is will Bond 25 turn into a film like Spectre where we had a great cast but poor script and under use of some great characters (this is why I'm hoping Mendes doesn't return)?

    I am a big Craig fan btw but would hate to see him finish his Bond tenure with death of 007. I know that directors care less about continuity nowadays but I feel that EON could lose a lot of fans with this decision - but maybe they don't care as it would be someone elses problem.
    I'm sorry......that last hand...nearly killed me
  • Revolver66Revolver66 Melbourne, AustraliaPosts: 470MI6 Agent
    Maybe Bond can kill himself in Bond 25. Knock back a Martini and PPK to the head. That would be a great way for Craig's Bond to go :))
  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 19,966MI6 Agent
    Revolver66 wrote:
    Maybe Bond can kill himself in Bond 25. Knock back a Martini and PPK to the head. That would be a great way for Craig's Bond to go :))

    Yes, he can commit suicide by cutting his wrists :o
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,570MI6 Agent
    If Bond were to die, it should be the common ambiguous end that superheroes often get. The kind of ending where most people think Bond has died but with the possibility of him coming back. The kind of thing Skyfall did.
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • canoe2canoe2 Posts: 1,931MI6 Agent
    I've said before I don't see any upside to killing Bond. To me, it just doesn't make sense creatively, financially or as a hook to keep the general audience interested in the character. IMHO, it reeks of desperation. Maybe I just lack imagination, but I can't conceive of a way that offing 007 will do anything except damage the brand.

    I have no idea how true the Sun story is, but I'm taking it with a huge grain of salt.

    I don't have
  • Asp9mmAsp9mm Over the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,291MI6 Agent
    What people seem to forget is.... Craig’s Bond is not a direct lineage of the films that came before. It started afresh and rebooted everything. He never married Tracey etc.

    It’s a self contained set of films, like Nolan’s Batman, it has a beginning and an end. Well, it had an end until Craig came back for another, er... end. So continuation of the series if Craig’s Batma..er, Bond dies, isn't going to be a problem. They’ll just make a film in the same vein as all of them post 62, where Bond is just established and does Bond things.
    ..................Asp9mmSIG-1-2.jpg...............
  • Bmorelli11Bmorelli11 Posts: 197MI6 Agent
    I personally don't think EON is planning on selling the franchise any time soon. Look at all of the recent licensing agreements EON has announced. From Omega's new image with Daniel last week, to a multi-year Orlebar Brown partnership, to Aston Martin remaking Goldfinger DB5s (how cool is that by the way?!) the Bond brand is incredibly profitable and I can't see EON wanting to part with that, especially with the easy way out of killing Bond.
    You're that English secret agent from England | Instagram: @matchedperfectly | Web: www.matchedperfectly.us
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,449MI6 Agent
    A few things here,
    I'd quite happily conclude that bb and mgw are not excited by o
    Bond anymore, their lacklustre approach seems to prove this point. Bond could be a legacy they are happy to conclude.
    Bond is DC's career high, he's intelligent enough to understand this and probably would like to kill, "his" character off.
    DC is also bbs golden boy, never before has the star had so much input, who follows Craig? Who knows but couldn't "give a fcuk"
    Then there is the continuation, as the asp says, since 2006 bond has been a reboot, the value of the bond franchise is in the name, the iconography, the logos, the music not the current story arc, eon could quite happily conclude their bond, sell off and ride into the sunset topping up their bank accounts with more money than an average banks annual profits, as would DC with his cool 25 million. Why do we all expect eon to feed our bond appetite?
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,449MI6 Agent
    Asp9mm wrote:
    What people seem to forget is.... Craig’s Bond is not a direct lineage of the films that came before. It started afresh and rebooted everything. He never married Tracey etc.

    It’s a self contained set of films, like Nolan’s Batman, it has a beginning and an end. Well, it had an end until Craig came back for another, er... end. So continuation of the series if Craig’s Batma..er, Bond dies, isn't going to be a problem. They’ll just make a film in the same vein as all of them post 62, where Bond is just established and does Bond things.
    This
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,449MI6 Agent
    canoe2 wrote:
    I've said before I don't see any upside to killing Bond. To me, it just doesn't make sense creatively, financially or as a hook to keep the general audience interested in the character. IMHO, it reeks of desperation. Maybe I just lack imagination, but I can't conceive of a way that offing 007 will do anything except damage the brand.

    I have no idea how true the Sun story is, but I'm taking it with a huge grain of salt.

    I don't have
    Agreed
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,570MI6 Agent
    Bmorelli11 wrote:
    I personally don't think EON is planning on selling the franchise any time soon. Look at all of the recent licensing agreements EON has announced. From Omega's new image with Daniel last week, to a multi-year Orlebar Brown partnership, to Aston Martin remaking Goldfinger DB5s (how cool is that by the way?!) the Bond brand is incredibly profitable and I can't see EON wanting to part with that, especially with the easy way out of killing Bond.

    When someone wants to sell a brand, they want to make the brand as valuable as possible.

    I wonder what the public perception to killing off Bond will be. With Bond killed off, will people be more exciting to see Bond return again? Or will they put Bond out of their minds because they think Bond has finally ended after 6 decades? A few casual Bond viewers thought Bond was over after Skyfall because they think all film series come in trilogies. When I mentioned Spectre to them, they had no idea there was another Bond film!
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • ichaiceichaice LondonPosts: 512MI6 Agent
    Doesn't it say at the end of each Bond film........James Bond will return or something similar? Forget about killing off Bond, just stick to what has worked for 50+ years I say.
    Yes. Considerably!
    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lukey_sparrow/
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,737MI6 Agent
    In the Daily Mail today, they said there was no truth in
    The story of a big delay in the films release.
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,449MI6 Agent
    In the Daily Mail today, they said there was no truth in
    The story of a big delay in the films release.
    I hope they're right.
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • JarvioJarvio EnglandPosts: 4,232MI6 Agent
    Asp9mm wrote:
    What people seem to forget is.... Craig’s Bond is not a direct lineage of the films that came before. It started afresh and rebooted everything. He never married Tracey etc.

    It’s a self contained set of films, like Nolan’s Batman, it has a beginning and an end. Well, it had an end until Craig came back for another, er... end. So continuation of the series if Craig’s Batma..er, Bond dies, isn't going to be a problem. They’ll just make a film in the same vein as all of them post 62, where Bond is just established and does Bond things.

    I agree with all of this. However, this is also precisely the reason why I think bond shouldn't die - because what would it even achieve? A bit of shock value? Closure for Babs? These reasons do not justify killing bond IMO, killing bond would be pointless, because like what you say, they can just start a clean slate anyway, whether he dies or not, like they have been doing from the start of the series. DC may have been a hard reboot, but all the others have been soft reboots.

    Anyway, killing off the main character wouldn't even be original either. For bond maybe it would (as he's never "truly/permanently" died before), but I'm still not buying it. The world does not need bond's death IMO.
    1 - LALD, 2 - AVTAK, 3 - OP, 4 - LTK, 5 - NTTD, 6 - FYEO, 7 - SF, 8 - DN, 9 - DAF, 10 - TSWLM, 11 - OHMSS, 12 - TMWTGG, 13 - GE, 14 - MR, 15 - TLD, 16 - YOLT, 17 - GF, 18 - DAD, 19 - TWINE, 20 - SP, 21 - TND, 22 - TB, 23 - FRWL, 24 - QOS, 25 - CR

    1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
  • zaphod99zaphod99 Posts: 1,415MI6 Agent
    Jarvio wrote:
    Asp9mm wrote:
    What people seem to forget is.... Craig’s Bond is not a direct lineage of the films that came before. It started afresh and rebooted everything. He never married Tracey etc.

    It’s a self contained set of films, like Nolan’s Batman, it has a beginning and an end. Well, it had an end until Craig came back for another, er... end. So continuation of the series if Craig’s Batma..er, Bond dies, isn't going to be a problem. They’ll just make a film in the same vein as all of them post 62, where Bond is just established and does Bond things.

    I agree with all of this. However, this is also precisely the reason why I think bond shouldn't die - because what would it even achieve? A bit of shock value? Closure for Babs? These reasons do not justify killing bond IMO, killing bond would be pointless, because like what you say, they can just start a clean slate anyway, whether he dies or not, like they have been doing from the start of the series. DC may have been a hard reboot, but all the others have been soft reboots.

    Anyway, killing off the main character wouldn't even be original either. For bond maybe it would (as he's never "truly/permanently" died before), but I'm still not buying it. The world does not need bond's death IMO.

    I am not against Bond dying, but agree with you that they can achieve everything with another reboot, or just ignore it and carry on. I think vanity could be a factor if the rumours are true. Dannybabs would get a bang out of it and it could make for a great film. It's a bit like Spectre in as much as the cat was out of the bag from the get go as a consequence the 'reveal' fell flat. Given where we are the most radical approach might be a return to 'James Bond will return' perhaps even with a title for 26.as the credits roll...
    Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
  • bonded123bonded123 Posts: 291MI6 Agent
    edited August 2018
    I thinK Babs or MG must have been reading this comic:

    220px-Superman75.jpg

    (spoiler - he came back to life!) :D


    It would be hilarious if Bond were to die at the end of Bond 25 and as the end credits are about to finish there is the text:

    JAMES BOND WILL RETURN

    :D :D

    Gala Brand wrote:

    I see that the latest MI film is doing comparatively poorly at the box office. The reason is that Ethan Hunt is a complete cipher without even the thinnest layer of character development. Audiences today want more than seeing basically the same film with the same unchanging character.

    You might have to factor in Cruise's age. He's 56 so he's not going to appeal to teens or 20 somethings. Arguably the only old action hero to get away with it was Ford in Indiana Jones 4. He was in his 60s.

    Bond was fairly two dimensional up till Dalton's casting. Connery's Bond never evolved. Moore's didn't evolve. Lazenby's Bond got married but that was a one-off moment.

    If some Bond fans want a return to a Connery/Moore type Bond - an impersonal Bond out on a mission (no backstory stuff) then we need Eon to sell up. New owners could revert back to the 1960s/1970s style of Bond but times have changed. It's a much more politically correct world and the old Bond style - less emotional, no backstory, Bond using women for sex and little else - might seem a bit old fashioned or in bad taste. I recall Matt Damon saying he disliked James Bond:
    “I like Bourne better than Bond,” he said. “Bourne has today’s values; Bond has the values of the 1960s. Daniel [Craig]’s Bond has upgraded him and brought him more into the present, but, classically, that character is a misogynist who likes swilling martinis and killing people and not giving a sh*t.”

    But that is what made Bond so popular and iconic! It's the non-PC traits that distinguished Bond from all other action heroes. Barbara Broccoli took over and started to dilute, lessen Bond's non-PC traits. I doubt we'll ever see a Connery/Moore type Bond. A Bond that has no personal issues. A Bond that does a mission, doesn't get emotionally involved. I say "forget the PC social justice warrior snowflakes - let Bond be Bond!"
  • CheverianCheverian Posts: 1,292MI6 Agent
    Matt S wrote:
    Bmorelli11 wrote:
    I personally don't think EON is planning on selling the franchise any time soon. Look at all of the recent licensing agreements EON has announced. From Omega's new image with Daniel last week, to a multi-year Orlebar Brown partnership, to Aston Martin remaking Goldfinger DB5s (how cool is that by the way?!) the Bond brand is incredibly profitable and I can't see EON wanting to part with that, especially with the easy way out of killing Bond.

    When someone wants to sell a brand, they want to make the brand as valuable as possible.

    I wonder what the public perception to killing off Bond will be. With Bond killed off, will people be more exciting to see Bond return again? Or will they put Bond out of their minds because they think Bond has finally ended after 6 decades? A few casual Bond viewers thought Bond was over after Skyfall because they think all film series come in trilogies. When I mentioned Spectre to them, they had no idea there was another Bond film!

    This is right on. I don't see how killing off Bond makes him more valuable. The new owners of the film rights can already reboot him without having the world confused about how he has risen from the dead.

    And even from the financial standpoint of Bond 25 itself, the story of his death can't help but be a downer. What's the final scene? M, Q, and Moneypenny at his funeral after Bond died saving the Queen, saying how he always put his duty first? It's the feel-good movie of 2019! Part of these huge grosses for films like the Avengers and Black Panther is people returning for multiple viewings. I'm trying to imagine teenagers flocking back to the cinema to see DC getting shot again and again.

    Because I missed it, can someone point me to the direct Craig quote where he says he wants to play Bond's death?
  • bonded123bonded123 Posts: 291MI6 Agent
    edited August 2018
    Only Ian Fleming should be allowed to kill off James Bond! He's no longer with us so I say "no, you shouldn't do it, Eon!"

    Also, as mentioned by others, Bond will return in the next film. It's not as if Bond 25 is going to be the final James Bond motion picture (well, very unlikely). Bond dies in Bond 25 but returns in Bond 26? Seems pointless and kind of silly. I suppose it could generate more interest in the franchise, that's all. A PR gimmick to help get people to go see Bond 25 and 26.

    Bond is dead!

    Not really, Bond is back!

    8-) :D
  • HowardBHowardB USAPosts: 2,679MI6 Agent
    This is what I am hoping is happening: Yann Damange or David MacKenzie are presently or will be shortly reviewing a draft of John Hodge's script for Bond 25, including some notes from EON regarding some things they would like to see changed or revised. Damange or whoever will resubmit a polished draft with re-writes to EON and EON will sign off on the new draft. Pre-production will continue and Bond 25 will start filming only 2-3 weeks later than originally planned with a screenplay written by John Hodge and Yann Damange (or David McKenzie). Now just go and make a great Bond film. -{
  • HalfMonk HalfHitmanHalfMonk HalfHitman USAPosts: 2,160MI6 Agent
    If the dispute was over killing/not killing Bond, would they have gone as far down the road with Boyle as they did, only to have this rift now? Seems like more tabloid nonsense. Two days earlier they were saying it was a casting dispute. Why should we give the tabloids more credit over one story than another?
  • HalfMonk HalfHitmanHalfMonk HalfHitman USAPosts: 2,160MI6 Agent
    bonded123 wrote:
    I say "forget the PC social justice warrior snowflakes - let Bond be Bond!"

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/lostinshowbiz/2018/aug/16/far-righters-james-bond-not-on-your-team-idris-elba

    -{
  • MrGoreMrGore Posts: 129MI6 Agent
    bonded123 wrote:
    "forget the PC social justice warrior snowflakes - let Bond be Bond!"

    Just a naive prediction.

    Choose SJW/PC? 50% drop in audience.

    Go full Bond? Billion dollar club returns.

    Let the box office returns speak for themselves.

    MATT DAMON?

    Example

    US boxoffice Adjusted for Ticket Price Inflation

    The Bourne Ultimatum 2007 $306 million
    A "let Bourne be Bourne" story

    Jason Bourne 2016 $176 million
    SJW Bourne
  • bonded123bonded123 Posts: 291MI6 Agent
    Perhaps there is an obscure bit of Fleming Bond work that Danny and Idris can use? Sort of Thunderball version 3. Yeah, that will annoy the far-right, the Craig fans, heck everyone.


    Danny Boyle presents

    Idris Elba in

    Never Say Racism Again

    :D
  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 19,966MI6 Agent
    bonded123 wrote:
    I say "forget the PC social justice warrior snowflakes - let Bond be Bond!"

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/lostinshowbiz/2018/aug/16/far-righters-james-bond-not-on-your-team-idris-elba

    -{

    So now I'm on the far right....... :o
  • zaphod99zaphod99 Posts: 1,415MI6 Agent
    bonded123 wrote:
    I thinK Babs or MG must have been reading this comic:

    220px-Superman75.jpg

    (spoiler - he came back to life!) :D


    It would be hilarious if Bond were to die at the end of Bond 25 and as the end credits are about to finish there is the text:

    JAMES BOND WILL RETURN

    :D :D

    Gala Brand wrote:

    I see that the latest MI film is doing comparatively poorly at the box office. The reason is that Ethan Hunt is a complete cipher without even the thinnest layer of character development. Audiences today want more than seeing basically the same film with the same unchanging character.

    You might have to factor in Cruise's age. He's 56 so he's not going to appeal to teens or 20 somethings. Arguably the only old action hero to get away with it was Ford in Indiana Jones 4. He was in his 60s.

    Bond was fairly two dimensional up till Dalton's casting. Connery's Bond never evolved. Moore's didn't evolve. Lazenby's Bond got married but that was a one-off moment.

    If some Bond fans want a return to a Connery/Moore type Bond - an impersonal Bond out on a mission (no backstory stuff) then we need Eon to sell up. New owners could revert back to the 1960s/1970s style of Bond but times have changed. It's a much more politically correct world and the old Bond style - less emotional, no backstory, Bond using women for sex and little else - might seem a bit old fashioned or in bad taste. I recall Matt Damon saying he disliked James Bond:
    “I like Bourne better than Bond,” he said. “Bourne has today’s values; Bond has the values of the 1960s. Daniel [Craig]’s Bond has upgraded him and brought him more into the present, but, classically, that character is a misogynist who likes swilling martinis and killing people and not giving a sh*t.”

    But that is what made Bond so popular and iconic! It's the non-PC traits that distinguished Bond from all other action heroes. Barbara Broccoli took over and started to dilute, lessen Bond's non-PC traits. I doubt we'll ever see a Connery/Moore type Bond. A Bond that has no personal issues. A Bond that does a mission, doesn't get emotionally involved. I say "forget the PC social justice warrior snowflakes - let Bond be Bond!"

    I never found Connery or Dalton for that matter impersonal. I think the Mission vs Backstory narrative misses something. It's not a binary choice but question of balance or air-fuel mixture. There is always 'skin in the game' for Bond, whether it's the death of Quarrel or Saunders there is something of a personal element for Bond. My contention is just that the balance is out of whack. This predates the Craig era, I started getting out of hand for me in TWINE. It's a question of prime focus rather than mission or non mission.
    Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
  • Miles MesservyMiles Messervy Posts: 1,647MI6 Agent
    Great point, Zaphod.

    I must admit that I’m starting to lose interest in Bond 25. It seems destined to be a film I won’t enjoy since I didn’t want Craig back after Spectre (a tidy end for his arc), and have no interest in seeing Bond die. Add on the production turmoil and the whole thing starts to feel a bit tired. And once it’s over, God only knows how long we’ll go until 26. Not a great time to be a Bond fan I’m afraid.
  • zaphod99zaphod99 Posts: 1,415MI6 Agent
    Great point, Zaphod.

    I must admit that I’m starting to lose interest in Bond 25. It seems destined to be a film I won’t enjoy since I didn’t want Craig back after Spectre (a tidy end for his arc), and have no interest in seeing Bond die. Add on the production turmoil and the whole thing starts to feel a bit tired. And once it’s over, God only knows how long we’ll go until 26. Not a great time to be a Bond fan I’m afraid.

    I oscillate about it. I was optimistic until Boyle bailed. I still hope it turns out well, but am starting to feel it's a bit doomed. Mind you CR was surrounded by the most rampant negativity. I have said before that the difference may be that EON knew what they were doing even if we did not. Now 26, that I am looking forward to...
    Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
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